Notes and Queries, Number 186, May 21, 1853

As a collateral evidence to my opinion, that painter is derived from the Saxon bynder, through the Anglo-Norman panter, and that derrick is from Derrick the hangman, I may add that these words are unknown in the nautical technology of any other language.

W. Pinkerton.

Ham.

Pepys's "Morena" (Vol. vii., p. 118.).—Mr. Warden may like to be informed that his conjecture about the meaning of this word is fully confirmed by the following passage in the Diary, 6th October, 1661, which has hitherto unaccountably escaped observation:

"There was also my pretty black girl, Mrs. Dekins and Mrs. Margaret Pen this day come to church."

Braybrooke.

Pylades and Corinna (Vol. vii., p. 305.).—If your correspondent's question have reference to the two volumes in octavo published under this title in 1731, assuredly Defoe had nothing to do with them, as must be evident to any one on the most cursory glance. The volumes contain memoirs of Mrs. Elizabeth Thomas, on whom Dryden conferred the poetical title of Corinna, and the letters which passed between her and Richard Gwinnett, her intended husband. A biography of this lady, neither whose life nor poetry were of the best, may be found in Chalmers's Biog. Dict., vol. xxix. p. 281., and a farther one in Cibber's Lives, vol. iv. The Dunciad, and her part in the publication of Pope's early correspondence, have given her an unhappy notoriety. I must say, however, that, notwithstanding his provocation, I cannot but think that he treated this poor woman ungenerously.

James Crossley.

Judge Smith (Vol. vii., p. 463.).—I must confess my ignorance of any Judge Smith flourishing in the reign of Elizabeth. I know of only three judges of that name.

1. John Smith, a Baron of the Exchequer during the last seven years of the reign of Henry VIII. From him descended the Lords Carrington of Wotton Waven, in Warwickshire, a title which became extinct in 1705.

2. John Smith, who was also a Baron of the Exchequer in the reign of Anne. He became Chief Baron of the Exchequer in Scotland in 1708, and died in 1726. He endowed a hospital for poor widows at Frolesworth in Leicestershire.

3. Sidney Stafford Smythe, likewise a Baron of the Exchequer under George II. and III., and Chief Baron in the latter reign. He was of the same family as that of the present Viscount Strangford.

If Z. E. R. would be good enough to send a copy of the inscription on the monument in Chesterfield Church, and give some particulars of the family seated at Winston Hall, the difficulty will probably be removed.

Edward Foss.

Grindle (Vol. vii., pp. 107. 307. 384.).—As one at least of the readers of "N. & Q." living near Grindle (Greendale is modern), allow me to say that from the little I know of the places, they appear to me "to possess no traces of those natural features which would justify the demoniacal derivation proposed by I. E." However, as my judgment may be of little worth, if "I. E. of Oxford" should ever migrate into these parts, and will favour me with a call, with credentials of being the veritable I. E. of "N. & Q.," I shall have much pleasure in assisting him to examine for himself all the local knowledge which a short walk to the spots may enable him to acquire.

H. T. Ellacombe.

Rectory, Clyst St. George.

Simile of the Soul and the Magnetic Needle (Vol. vi., pp. 127. 207. 280. 368. 566.).—Dr. Arnold, with more religion than science, thus employs this simile:

"Men get embarrassed by the common cases of misguided conscience; but a compass may be out of order as well as a conscience, and the needle may point due south if you hold a powerful magnet in that direction. Still the compass, generally speaking, is a true and sure guide, and so is the conscience; and you can trace the deranging influence on the latter quite as surely as on the former."—Life and Correspondence, 2nd ed. p. 390.

C. Mansfield Ingleby.

Birmingham.

English Bishops deprived by Queen Elizabeth, 1559 (Vol. vii., p. 260.).—I have endeavoured to procure some information for A. S. A. on those points which Mr. Dredge left unnoticed, but find that, after his diligent search, very little indeed is to be gleaned. Bishop Payne died in January, 1559/60 (Strype's Annals, anno 1559). Dod, in vol. i. p. 507. of his Church History, mentions a letter of Bishop Goldwell's, or, as he calls him, Godwell's, to Dr. Allen, dated anno 1581:

"This letter," he says, "seems to be written not long before Bishop Godwell's death, for I meet with no farther mention of him. Here the reader may take notice of a mistake in Dr. Heylin, who tells us he died prisoner in Wisbich Castle, which is to be understood of Bishop Watson."

Of Bishop Pate he says:

"He was alive in 1562, but how long after I do not find."—Vol. i. p. 488.

Bishop Pole, according to the same authority, died a prisoner at large about the latter end of May, 1568. Bishop Frampton died May 25, 1708 (Calamy's Own Times, vol. ii. p. 119.). I cannot ascertain the day of Bishop White's death, but he was buried, according to Evelyn (vol. iii. p. 364.), June 5, 1698.

Tyro.

Dublin.

Borrowed Thoughts (Vol. vii., p. 203.).—The thought which Erica shows has been used by Butler and Macaulay is a grain from an often-pillaged granary; a tag of yarn from a piece of cloth used ever since its make for darning and patching; a drop of honey from a hive round which robber-bees and predatory wasps have never ceased to wander,—the Anatomy of Melancholy:

"Though there were giants of old in physic and philosophy, yet I say with Didacus Stella3, 'a dwarf standing on the shoulders of a giant may see farther than a giant himself.' I may likely add, alter, and see farther than my predecessors; and it is no greater prejudice for me to indite after others, than for Ælianus Montaltus, that famous physician, to write De Morbis Capitis, after Jason Pratensis," &c.

The pagination (that of Tegg's edition, 1849) will not guide those who with Elia sicken at the profanity of "unearthing the bones of that fantastic old great man," and know not a "sight more heartless" than the reprint of his Opus.

Sigma.

Sunderland.

Dr. South v. Goldsmith, Talleyrand, &c. (Vol. vi., p. 575. Vol. vii., p. 311.).—One authority has been overlooked by Mr. Breen, which seems as likely as any to have given currency to the saying, viz. Dean Swift. In Gulliver's Travels (1727), Voyage to the Houyhnhnms, the hero gives the king some information respecting British ministers of state, which I apprehend in Swift's day was no exaggeration. The minister, Gulliver says, "applies his words to all uses except to the indication of his mind." It must be confessed, however, that this authority is some seven years after Dr. South.

C. Mansfield Ingleby.

Birmingham.

Foucault's Experiment (Vol. vii., p. 330.).—The reality of the rotation, and the cause assigned to it by Foucault in his experiment, is now admitted without question by scientific men. But in measuring the amount of the motion of the pendulum, so many disturbing causes were found to be at work, that the numerical results have not been obtained as yet with exactness. The best account is, perhaps, the original one in the Comptes Rendus. Mr. Foucault has lately invented an instrument founded on a similar principle, to find the latitude of a place.

Elsno.

Passage in "Locksley Hall" (Vol. vi., p. 272.; Vol. vii., pp. 25. 146.).—Of these three commentators neither appears to me to have hit Tennyson's meaning, though Corylus has made the nearest shot. I ought to set out by confessing that it was not originally clear to myself, but that I could not for a monument doubt, when the following explanation was suggested to me by a friend. The "curlews" themselves are the "dreary gleams:" the words are what the Latin Grammar calls "duo substantiva ejusdem rei." I take the meaning, in plain prose to be this: "The curlews are uttering their peculiar cry, as they fly over Locksley Hall, looking like (to me, the spectator) dreary gleams crossing the moorland."

I could supply A. A. D. with several examples in English, from my commonplace-book, of the "bold figure of speech not uncommon in the vivid language of Greece;" and among the rest, one from Tennyson himself, to wit:

"Now, scarce three paces measured from the mound,We stumbled on a stationary voice," &c.

But I doubt whether the poet had those passages in his thought, when he penned the opening of his noble poem "Locksley Hall." Of course I do not know, any more than A. A. D., and the rest; and I suppose we shall none of us get any enlightenment "by authority."

Harry Leroy Temple.

Lake of Geneva (Vol. vii. p. 406.).—The account given in the Chronicle of Marius of what is called "an earthquake or landslip in the valley of the Upper Rhone," is evidently that of a sudden débâcle destructive of life and property, but not such as to effect any permanent change in the configuration of the country. That an antiquary like Montfaucon should have fallen into the blunder of supposing that the Lacus Lemanus was then formed, may well excite surprise. The breadth of the new-formed lake, as given by Marius, is impossible, as the mountains in the valley are scarcely anywhere more than a mile apart. The valley of the Upper Rhone is liable to such débâcles, and one which would fill it might be called a lake, although of short duration. Having witnessed the effects of the débâcle of 1818 a few weeks after it happened, I can easily understand how such a one as that described by Marius should have produced the effects attributed to it, and yet have left no traces of its action after the lapse of centuries.

J. S.

Athenæum.

"Inter cuncta micans," &c. (Vol. vi., p. 413.).—In a small work, Lives of Eminent Saxons, part i. p. 104., the above lines are ascribed to Aldhelm, and a translation by Mr. Boyd is subjoined.

To Aldhelm also are attributed the lines so often alluded to in "N. & Q.," "Roma tibi subito," &c.

B. H. C.

"Its" (Vol. vi., p. 509.; Vol. vii., p. 160.).—As the proposer of the question on this word, so kindly replied to by Mr. Keightley, may I give two instances of its use from the Old Version of the Psalms?

"Which in due season bringeth forth its fruit abundantly."—Ps. i. 3.

"Thou didst prepare first a place, and set its roots so fast."—Ps. lxxx. 10.

The American Bibliotheca Sacra for October 1851, p. 735., says (speaking of the time when the authorised version of the Scriptures was executed), "the genitive its was not then in use;" which is disproved by the quotations already given.

B. H. C.

Gloves at Fairs (Vol. vii., p. 455.).—The custom of "hanging out the glove at fair time," as described by E. G. R., is, in all probability, of Chester origin. The annals of that city show that its two great annual fairs were established, or rather confirmed, by a charter of Hugh Lupus, the first Norman Earl of Chester, who granted to the abbot and convent of St. Werburgh (now the cathedral) "the extraordinary privilege, that no criminals resorting to their fairs at Chester should be arrested for any crime whatever, except such as they might have committed during their stay in the city." For several centuries, Chester was famous for the manufacture of gloves; and in token thereof, it was the custom for some days before, and during the continuance of the fair, to hang out from the town-hall, then situate at the High Cross, their local emblem of commerce—a glove: thereby proclaiming that non-freemen and strangers were permitted to trade within the city, a privilege at all other times enjoyed by the citizens only. During this period of temporary "free trade," debtors were safe from the tender mercies of their creditors, and free from the visits of the sheriff's officer and his satellites. On the removal of the town-hall to another part of the city, the leathern symbol of "unrestricted competition" was suspended, at the appointed season, from the roof of St. Peter's Church; until that reckless foe to antiquity, the Reform Bill, aimed a heavy blow at all our prescriptive rights and privileges, and decreed that the stranger should be henceforth on a footing with the freeborn citizen. Notwithstanding this, the authorities of the city still continued to "hang out their banner on the outward walls;" and it is only within the last ten years that the time-honoured custom has ceased to exist.

T. Hughes.

Chester.

Astronomical Query (Vol. vii., p.84.).—Your fair correspondent Leonora makes a mistake in reference to the position, in regard to the zodiac, of the newly-discovered planets. It is indeed not at all surprising that these bodies were not discovered before, for this reason—they do not move within the circle of the zodiac: they lie far beyond it, so much so, that to include them the zodiac must be expanded to at least five times its present breadth. Hence they lie out of the path of ordinary observation, and their discovery is usually the result of keen telescopic examination of distant parts of the heavens. Leonora is of course aware, that, with the exception of Neptune (the discovery of which is a peculiar case), all the recently discovered planets belong to the cluster of asteroids which move between Mars and Jupiter. These are all invisible to the eye with the exception of Vesta, and she is not to be distinguished by any but an experienced star-gazer, and under most favourable circumstances; their minuteness, their extra-zodiacal position, and the outrageous orbits which they describe, all conspire to keep them out of human ken until they are detected by the telescope, and ascertained to be planets either by their optical appearances, or by a course of watching and comparison of their positions with catalogues of the fixed stars.

Shirley Hibberd.

Tortoiseshell Tom Cat (Vol. v., p. 465.; Vol. vii., p. 271.).—See Hone's Year Book, p. 728.

Zeus.

Sizain on the Pope, the Devil, and the Pretender (Vol. vii., p. 270.).—This is given as one of the prize epigrams in the Gentleman's Magazine for 1735, vol. v. p. 157.

Zeus.

Wandering Jew (Vol. vii., p. 261.).—Your correspondent will find an account of the Wandering Jew prefixed to "Le Juif errant," the 3ième livraison of Chants et Chansons Populaires de la France.

Thos. Lawrence.

Ashby-de-la-Zouch.

The earliest account of this legend is in Roger of Wendover, under the year 1228: De Joseph, qui ultimum Christi adventum adhuc vivus exspectat, vol. iv. p. 176. of the Historical Society's edition, vol. ii. p. 512. of Bohn's Translation: see also Brand's Popular Antiquities, vol iii. p. 360., Bohn's edition.

Zeus.

Hallett and Dr. Saxby (Vol. vii., p. 41.).—I know nothing of the parties, but have the book about which S. R. inquires. The title is not accurately given in the Literary Journal. Instead of "An Ode to Virtue," by Dr. Morris Saxby, it is An Ode on Virtue by a Young Author, dedicated to Dr. William Saxby; with a Preface and Notes, Critical and Explanatory, by a Friend—"Mens sibi conscia recti"—A good intention. Printed anno Domini MDCCXCI, pp. 16.

A more stupid production could not easily be found; but, as it must be scarce, if the story about the destruction of all but eight copies is true, I transcribe a part of the dedication:

"Most August Doctor,

"The reputation you have acquired by professional merit, with the respect which is universally shown to you on account of your practical observance of moral philosophy, has induced me to select you as a protector of the following work; which being evidently intended to promote a cause for which you was always a zealous advocate, I have nourished the most flattering hopes that you will be rather pleased than offended by this unwarrantable presumption.

"It is necessary I should deviate from the general rule of celebrating a patron's virtues in a high strain of panegyric, being sensible how generally yours are known, and how justly admired."—P. 3.

The ode contains only ten lines:

"Virtue, a mere chimera amongst the fair,Is now quite vanquished into air;Formerly it was thought a thing of worth,But now who thinks of such poor stuff.It's only put on to deceive,That us poor mortals on them may crave;Fall down and swear their beauty farSurpasses what are ever saw!Then they who think all's true that's said," &c.

I omit the final line as unseemly.

Dr. Saxby is mentioned only on the title-page, and that part of the dedication which I have copied. He must have been a sensitive man to have felt such an attack, and a prompt one to settle his account with the author so quickly. As it is obvious that the ode was published solely to annoy him, we may be allowed to hope that in the "severe personal chastisement" he was not sparing of whipcord. The absence of place of publication and printer's name render inquiry difficult; and there is no indication as to whether Dr. Saxby was of Divinity, Law, or Physic.

H. B. C.

U. U. Club.

"My mind to me a kingdom is" (Vol. i., pp. 302. 489.; Vol. vi., pp. 555. 615.).—The idea is Shakspeare's (Third Part of Hen. VI.):

"Keeper. Ay, but thou talk'st as if thou wert a king.K. Henry. Why, so I am in mind; and that's enough."C. Mansfield Ingleby.

Birmingham.

Claret (Vol. vii., p. 237.).—The word claret seems to me to be the same as the French word clairet, both adjective and substantive; as a substantive it means a low and cheap sort of claret, sold in France, and drawn from the barrel like beer in England; as an adjective it is a diminutive of clair, and implies that the wine is transparent.

John Lammens.

Manchester.

Suicide at Marseilles (Vol. vii., pp. 180. 316.).—The original authority for the custom at Marseilles, of keeping poison at the public expense for the accommodation of all who could give the senate satisfactory reasons for committing suicide, is Valerius Maximus, lib. ii. cap. vi. § 7.

Zeus.

Etymology of Slang (Vol. vii., p. 331.).—

"Slangs are the greaves with which the legs of convicts are fettered, having acquired that name from the manner in which they were worn, as they required a sling of string to keep them off the ground.... The irons were the slangs; and the slang-wearer's language was of course slangous, as partaking much if not wholly of the slang."—Sportsman's Slang, a New Dictionary and Varieties of Life, by John Bee: Preface, p. 5.

Zeus.

Scanderbeg's Sword (Vol. vii., pp. 35. 143.).—The proverb, "Scanderbeg's sword must have Scanderbeg's arm," is founded on the following story:

"George Castriot, Prince of Albania, one of the strongest and valiantest men that lived these two hundred yeares, had a cimeter, which Mahomet the Turkish Emperor, his mortall enemy, desired to see. Castriot (surnamed of the Turks, Ischenderbeg, that is, Great Alexander, because of his valiantnesse), having received a pledge for the restitution of his cimeter, sent it so far as Constantinople to Mahomet, in whose court there was not any man found that could with any ease wield that piece of steele: so that Mahomet sending it back againe, enioyned the messenger to tell the prince, that in this action he kind proceeded enemy-like, and with a fraudulent mind, sending a counterfeit cimeter to make his enemie afraid. Ischenderbeg writ back to him, that he had simply without fraud or guile sent him his owne cimeter, with the which he used to helpe himselfe couragiously in the wars; but that he had not sent him the hand and the arme which with the cimeter cleft the Turkes in two, struck off their heads, shoulders, legs, and other parts, yea, sliced them of by the wast; and that verie shortly he would show him a fresh proofe thereof; which afterwards he performed."—Historical Meditations from the Latin of P. Camerarius, by John Molle, Esquire, 1621, book iv. Cap. xvi. p. 299.

The following, relating to the arm and sword of Scanderbeg, may perhaps not inappropriately be added, although not connected with the proverb:

"Marinus Barletius (lib. i.) reports of Scanderbeg, Prince of Epirus (that most terrible enemy of the Turks), that, from his mother's womb, he brought with him into the world a notable mark of warlike glory: for he had upon his right arm a sword, so well set on, as if it had been drawn with the pencil of the most curious and skilful painter in the world."—Wanley's Wonders of the Little World, 1678, book i. cap. vii.

Zeus.

Arago on the Weather (Vol. vii., p. 40.).—Elsno will find extracts from Arago's papers in the Pictorial Almanack, 1847, p. 30., and in the Civil Engineer and Architects' Journal, which volume I cannot say, but I think that for 1847. Also in the Monthly Chronicle, vol. i. p. 60., and vol. ii. p. 209.; the annals of the Bureau des Longitudes for 1834 and the Annuaire for 1833.

Shirley Hibberd.

Rathe (Vol. vii., p. 392.).—Mr. Crossley is, I believe, mistaken in his derivation of the word rathe from the Celtic raithe, signifying inclination, although rather seems indisputably to belong to it. Rathe is, I believe, identical with the Saxon adjective rætha, signifying early. Chaucer's—

"What aileth you so rathe for to arise,"

has been already quoted as bearing this meaning. Milton, in Lycidas, has—

"Bring the rathe primrose that forsaken dies."

In a pastoral, called a "Palinode," by E. B., probably Edmond Bolton, in England's Helicon, edit. 1614, occurs:

"And make the rathe and timely primrose grow."

And we have "rathe and late," in a pastoral in Davidson's Poems, 4th edit., London, 1621.

Rathe is a word still in use in the Weald of Sussex, where Saxon still lingers in the dialect of the common people; and a rathe, instead of an early spring, is spoken of; and a species of early apple is known as the Rathe-ripe.

Anon.

Carr Pedigree (Vol. vii., p. 408.).—The pedigree description of Lady Carr is "Gresil, daughter of Sir Robert Meredyth, Knt., Chancellor of the Exchequer in Ireland." Sir George Carr died Feb. 13, 1662-3, and was buried in Dublin. His sons were 1, Thomas, and 2, William; and a daughter Mary, who married 1st, Dr. Thomas Margetson (son to the Archbishop of Armagh); and 2ndly, Dr. Michael Ward. The pedigree is continued through Thomas the eldest son, who was the father of the Bishop of Killaloe. It does not appear that William left any issue. His wife's name was Elizabeth, daughter of Edward Sing, D.D., Lord Bishop of Cork.

W. St.

Banbury Cakes (Vol. vii., p. 106.).—In A Treatise of Melancholy, by T. Bright, doctor of physic, and published in 1586, I find the following:

"Sodden wheat is of a grosse and melancholicke nourishment, and bread especially of the fine flower unleavened: of this sort are bag-puddings or pan-puddings made with flour, frittars, pancakes, such as we call Banberie cakes, and those great ones confected with butter, eggs, &c., used at weddings; and howsoever it be prepared, rye and bread made thereof carrieth with it plentie of melancholie."

H. A. B.

Detached Belfry Towers (Vol. vii., pp. 333. 416. 465.).—To your already extensive list of church towers separate from the church, Launceston Church, Cornwall, and St. John's Church, Chester, may not unfittingly be added.

T. Hughes.

Chester.

Elstow, Bedfordshire, is an instance of a bell tower separated from the body of the church.

B. H. C.

Dates on Tombstones (Vol. vii., p. 331.).—A correspondent asks for instances of dates on tombstones prior to 1601. I cannot give any, but I can refer to some slabs lying upon the ground in a churchyard near Oundle (Tausor if I remember aright), on which appear in relief recumbent figures with the hands upon the breast, crossed, or in the attitude of prayer. These are of a much earlier date, and I should be much pleased to know if many or any such instances elsewhere occur.