Notes and Queries, Number 180, April 9, 1853

Sir John Powell.—In Vol. vii., p. 262., of "N. & Q." is an inquiry respecting Sir John Powell, and an answer given, in which there must surely be some mistake, or there must have been two Sir John Powells.

I beg to give the following extract from Britton's History and Antiquities of the Abbey Church of Gloucester:

"A full-length marble statue, in judicial robes, erected by John Snell, Esq., to the memory of his uncle, Judge Powell, who in 1685 represented this city, his native place, in parliament. He was successively a Justice of Common Pleas and the King's Bench, and was one of the Judges who tried the seven Bishops, and joined in the declaration against the King's dispensing power. For this, James II. deprived him of his office, July 2, 1688; but William III. created him, first a Baron of the Exchequer, then a Judge in the Common Pleas, and on June 18, 1702, advanced him to the King's Bench, where he sat till his death, June 14, 1713."

I will add, that on the floor near the above monument are inscribed the names, &c., of various members of his family.

Sir John Powell is traditionally said to have lived at an old house called Wightfield in this county, which certainly belonged, at one time, to the above John Snell, who had married the judge's niece, and from whose descendants it was purchased by the grandfather of the present possessor.

Allow me to ask, by-the-bye, if the place, as spelt in your paper, should not be Langharne, or more correctly still, Llangharne?

F. S.

Gloucestershire.

[There were not only two, but three judges of the name of Powell, who were cotemporaries, viz.—

1. Sir John Powell, mentioned in "N. & Q." (Vol. vii., p. 262.), whose burial-place should have been printed Llangharne, as our correspondent suggests. He was made a Judge of the Common Pleas on April 26, 1686, and a Judge of the King's Bench on April 16, 1687. He was removed on June 29, 1688, on consequence of the resolution he displayed on the trial of the seven bishops; but was restored to the Bench, as a Judge of the Common Pleas, in May, 1689, and continued to sit till his death in 1696.

2. Sir Thomas Powell became a Baron of the Exchequer on April 22, 1687, and was transferred into the King's Bench in June, 1688, to take the seat there left vacant by the removal of the above Sir John Powell. He himself was removed in May, 1689.

3. Sir John Powell, or, as he was then called, John Powell, junior, was made a Baron of the Exchequer on November 10, 1691, removed into the Common Pleas on October 29, 1695, and into the King's Bench in June, 1702, where he sat till his death in 1713. He it was who was buried at Gloucester.

Britton has evidently, as Chalmers and Noble had done before him, commingled and confused the histories of the two Sir Johns.]

S. N.'s "Antidote," &c.—I have just purchased an old book, in small quarto, of which the title is—

"An Antidote or Soveraigne Remedie against the pestiferous Writings of all English Sectaries, and in particular against Dr. Whitaker, Dr. Fulke, Dr. Bilson, Dr. Reynolds, Dr. Sparkes, and Dr. Field, the chiefe upholders, some of Protestancy, some of Puritanisme; divided into three Parts, &c., &c., &c. By S. N., doctour of divinity. Permissu superiorum, MDCXV."

Who is the author S. N., and what other particulars are known respecting it?

Lewis Kelly.

Leeds.

[Sylvester Norris is the author. There is an edition published in 1622, 4to.]

Beads.—When was the use of beads, for the purpose of counting prayers, first introduced into Europe?

C. W. G.

[For the repose of a bishop, by Wilfrid's Canons of Cealcythe, A.D. 816, can. X., seven belts of paternosters were to be said; the prayers being numbered probably by studs fixed on the girdle. But St. Dominic invented the rosary, which contains ten lesser beads representing Ave Marias, to one larger standing for a paternoster.]

Replies

BROAD ARROW

(Vol. iv., p. 412.)

With reference to my Note, ascribing a Celtic origin to this symbol, I have just met with somewhat of a curious coincidence, to say the least of it. In Richardson's Travels in the Sahara, &c., vol. i. p. 420., speaking of the camel, he says:

"The camels have all public and private marks, the former for their country, the latter for their owner; and, strange enough, the public mark of the Ghadames camel is the English broad R." &c. [Arrow, he should have said.]

Now, the Celtic ↑ (as before mentioned) is typical of superior holiness, &c. &c.; and it is singular that a city of Marabouts (saints or holy men, such as the Ghadamsee are described to be) should have adopted this symbol as their public (or government) mark. The population of Ghadames is a strange medley of Arabs, Touaricks, negroes, half-breeds of all kinds, &c., and whence their claim to superior sanctity does not appear.

That Celtic tribes once sojourned in Northern Africa is attested by Druidical remains in Morocco and elsewhere. Mr. Richardson mentions the frequent occurrence of pyramidal stones in the Sahara, incidentally, without specifying whether they are rocks in sitû, or supposed to be the work of man's hand. The language of Ghadames is one of the Berber dialects; and according to Mr. Urquhart (Pillars of Hercules, vol. i. p. 383.), these, or some of them, are said to contain so much of the Celtic element, that Highlanders from the garrison of Gibraltar, and the natives about Tangier, can mutually understand each other.

The above, however, are mere speculations; and I would suggest that, previous to further research as to the origin of the broad arrow, it would be as well to ascertain how long it has been used as "the King's mark." I should incline to believe that the earliest mark upon government stores was the royal cipher—ER (with a crown above) perhaps. On old guns of Henry VIII. and Elizabeth, we find the rose and crown, but no broad arrow; more frequently Elizabeth's bear her cipher. A few articles I have seen of William III. are stamped with WR (with a crown above): no broad arrow. Nor do I remember having ever seen it upon anything older than George III. This, however, is a question which may interest some gentleman of the Ordnance Department, and induce him to make research where success is most likely to reward his trouble, viz. in the Tower, in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich, or amongst the ancient records in the Ordnance Office; for I presume there be such.

P. C. S. S. (Vol. iv., p. 371.) says that "he always understood" the broad arrow represented the "Pheon" in the arms of the Sydney family; but, as he quotes no authority, we are at liberty to doubt the adoption and perpetuation of a bearing appertaining to any particular master-general of ordnance as a "king's mark," howsoever illustrious or distinguished he might be.

A. C. M.

Exeter

ENGLISH COMEDIANS IN THE NETHERLANDS

(Vol. ii., pp. 184. 459.; Vol. iii., p. 21.; Vol. vii., p. 114.)

Returning to this question, I will communicate a few extracts from the Gerechtsdagboeken (Minutes of the Council) of the city of Leyden:—

Sept. 30, 1604.—"Die van de Gerechte opt voorschryven van Zÿne Exe en versouc van Jan Woodtss, Engelsman, hebben toegelaten ende geconsenteert dat hy geduyrende deze aenstaende jaermarct met zyn behulp zal mogen speelen zeecker eerlick camerspel tot vermaeckinge van der gemeente, mits van yder persoen (comende om te bezien) nyet meer te mogen nemen nochte genyeten dan twaelf penn., ende vooral betaelen tot een gootspenning aen handen van Jacob van Noorde; bode metter roede, vier guld. om ten behouve van de armen verstrect te worden."

Translation

The magistrates, on the command of his Excellence, and on the request of John Woodtss, an Englishman, have permitted and consented that he, with his company, during the approaching fair, may play certain decent pieces for the amusement of the people, provided he take no more than twelve pennings from each person coming to see, and, above all, pay to Jacob van Noorde four guilders, to be applied to the use of the poor.

And again:

Jan. 6, 1605.—"Op't versouck aen die van de Gerechte gedaen by de Engelsche Comedyanten om te mogen spelen: staet geappostilleert. Die van de Gerechte deser stadt Leyden gesien in haer vergaderinge opt Raedthuys der voors. stede, de favorable brieven van Recommandatie ende testimoniael vanden Forst van Brandenburch van de X Augustij des jaers XVIc vier, mitsgaders t consent by Zyne Exie van Nassau verleent den xxij Decembris laest verleden, Es disponerende opt versouc int blanc van dezen, hebben voor zoo veel in hem is, de Engelsche Commedianten ende musicyns toonders in dezen, conform haer versouc toegelaten binnen deser stede te mogen spelen en haer consten doen ouffenen ende vertoonen ter gewoenlycke plaetse te weten opten groten hoff onder de bibliotecque, dewelcke hem toonders mits dezen ten eynde voorseyt, belast wert te werden ingeruymt, Ende dit al voor den tyt van veertien dagen eerstcomende, en mits, voor den jegenwoordige gracieuse toelatinge, gevende ten behouve van de gemeene huysarmen dezer stede een somme van twaelf gulden van xl groot tstuck. Aldus, gedaen opten vi January XVIc en̄ vyff. My jegenwoordich en is get. J. van Hout."

Translation

On the request to the magistrates of the English comedians to be allowed to perform, was decided: The magistrates of this city of Leyden, having seen in their assembly in the Town-House of the aforesaid city, the favourable letters of recommendation and testimonial of the Prince of Brandenberg of the 10th Aug., 1604, as well as the consent granted by his Excellence of Nassau, the 22nd of Dec. last, have permitted the English comedians and musicians, according to their request, to perform and exercise and exhibit their arts in the accustomed place, namely, in the great court under the library; and this for the space of fourteen days, provided they, for this gracious permission, give twelve guilders of forty groats a-piece to the poor of this city. Done on the 6th Jan., 1605. Me present; and signed "J. van Hout."

Elsevier.

Constanter has communicated the following lines of G. A. Brederode, confirming the statements of Heywood and Tieck:

"Ick mach soo langh oock by geen reden-ryckers zijn:Want dit volckje wil steets met allen menschen gecken,En sy kunnen als d'aep haer afterst niet bedecken;Sy seggen op haer les, soo stemmigh en soo stijf,Al waer gevoert, gevult met klap-hout al haer lijf!Waren 't de Engelsche, of andere uytlandtscheDie men hoort singen, en soo lustigh siet dantseDat sy suyse-bollen, en draeyen als een tol:Sy spreken 't uyt eaer geest, dees leeren 't uyt een rol.'t Isser weer na (seyd ick) als 't is, sey Eelhart schrander,Dat verschil is te groot, besiet men 't een by 't ander!D'uytheemsche die zijn wuft, dees raden tot het goedt,En straffen alle het quaet bedecklelijck en soet."TranslationTo stay with rhetoricians I've no mind:The fool they'll play with men of every kind,And, like the ape, exhibit what's behind.With gests so stiff their lesson they repeat,You'd swear with staves their bodies were replete!Heard you the men from merry England sing?Saw you their jolly dance, their lusty spring?How like a top they spin, and twirl, and turn?And from the heart they speak—ours from a roll must learn....—From the Navorscher.

THE SWEET SINGERS

(Vol. v., p. 372.)

A. N. asks for some historical notices of the above fanatics: as he may not be satisfied with Timperley's meagre allusion, allow me to refer him to the Memoirs of the Lord Viscount Dundee: London, 1714. The author of this, "An Officer of the Army," speaking of the stiff-necked Presbyterians, says:

"At this time (1681), about thirty of these deluded people left their families and business, and went to the hills, where they lived in rocks and caves for some weeks. John Gib, sailor in Borrowstowness, Walter Ker, in Trafritham, – Gemmison, in Linlithgow, were their chief leaders. They called themselves the Sweet Singers of Israel, eat nothing that there was salt in or paid tax to the king, blotted the name of king out of their Bibles, and cohabited all together. When a party of dragoons took them at the Ouffins, in Tweeddale, they were all lying on their faces, and jumped up in a minute, and called out with an audible voice, that God Almighty would consume the party with fire from heaven, for troubling the people of God. On the road, as they went to Edinburgh, when any of their relations or acquaintances came to visit them, they spit at them, and threw themselves on their faces, and bellowed like beasts, whereof his Highness (the Duke of York, then in Scotland) being informed, ordered them immediately to be set at liberty."

A more detailed account of these Gibbites will be found in the curious Presbyterian biographies "collected by, and printed for Patrick Walker, in the Bristo-Port of Edinburgh," the early part of last century. In that entitled "Some remarkable Passages in the Life, &c. of Mr. Daniel Cargill:" 12mo. Edin. 1732, A. N. will find the original story of the crazy skipper and his band of "three men and twenty-six women," whom worthy Mr. Cargill endeavoured unsuccessfully to reclaim. From this it would appear that the sweet singers went far greater lengths than above described, and that Gib, after the dispersion of his followers, took himself off to America, "where," says the aforesaid Patrick, "he was much admired by the blind Indians for his familiar converse with the devil." For the further information of your correspondent, I would add that Walker's account of the Gibbites is very well condensed in that more accessible book Biographia Scoticana, better known as the Scots Worthies, where the deluded Gib figures under the head of "God's Justice exemplified in his Judgments upon Persecutors."

J. O.

EDMUND SPENSER

(Vol. vii., p. 303.)

Mr. F. F. Spenser published the results of his researches relative to Spenser in the Gentleman's Magazine for August, 1842; and towards the end of his communication promised to record "many further interesting particulars," through the same medium, but failed to do so. Mr. Craik has made special reference to Mr. F. F. Spenser's paper in a little work upon which he must have bestowed a vast deal of labour, and which contains the completest investigation of all that has been discovered concerning the life, works, and descendants of the poet that I have met with: I refer to Spenser and his Poetry: by George L. Craik, M.A.: 3 vols. London, 1845. The appendix to vol. iii., devoted to an account of the descendants of Spenser, among other interesting matter, contains the history of the family descended from Sarah Spenser, a sister of Edmund Spenser, which is still represented. To which I may add that Spenser's own direct descendants are living in the city of Cork, and, I regret to say, in reduced circumstances. This should not be. A pension might well be bestowed on the descendants of Spenser, the only one of our four great poets whose posterity is not extinct.

J. M. B.

Tunbridge Wells.

I have read with much curiosity and surprise a paragraph engrafted into "N. & Q." (Vol. vii., p. 33.) from The Times newspaper, June 16, 1841, announcing that a Mr. F. F. Spenser, of Halifax, had ascertained that the ancient residence of his own family, at Hurstwood, near Burnley, Lancashire, was the identical spot where the great Elizabethan poet, Edmund Spenser, is said to have retired, when driven by academical disappointments to his relations in the north of England.

I confess all this appears to me very like a hoax, there is such a weight of negative testimony against it. Dr. Whitaker, the learned historian of Whalley, describes Hurstwood Hall as a strong and well-built old house, bearing on its front, in large characters, the name of "Barnard Townley," its founder, and that it was for several descents the property and residence of a family branched out from the parent stock of Townley, in the person of John Townley, third son of Sir Richard Townley, of Townley—died Sept. 1562. His son, Barnard Townley, died 1602, and married Agnes, daughter and coheiress of George Ormeroyd, of Ormeroyd, who died 1586.

It must be remembered that Hurstwood is in the immediate neighbourhood of Dr. Whitaker's ancient patrimonial estate of Holme; and he must have been familiar with all the traditionary history of that locality. Yet he is silent on this subject, and does not allude either to the occasional residence of the poet Spenser in those parts, or to the family of Spensers, who are stated in this paragraph to have resided at Hurstwood about four hundred years.

Clivigee.

LAMECH KILLING CAIN

(Vol. vii., p. 305.)

Sir John Maundeville says:

"Also, seven miles from Nazareth is Mount Cain, under which is a well; and beside that well Lamech, Noah's father, slew Cain with an arrow. For this Cain went through briars and bushes, as a wild beast; and he had lived from the time of Adam, his father, unto the time of Noah; and so he lived nearly two thousand years. And Lamech was blind for old age."—Travels, chap. x., Bohn's Early Travels in Palestine, p. 186.

To which is appended the following note by Mr. Thomas Wright, the editor:

"This legend arose out of an interpretation given to Gen. iv. 23, 24. See, as an illustration, the scene in the Coventry Mysteries, pp. 44. 46.

Zeus.

J. W. M. will find this question discussed at length in the Dictionnaire de Bayle, art. "Lamech," and more briefly in Pol. Synopsis Criticorum, Gen. iv. 23.

The subject has been engraved by Lasinio in his Pitture a fresco del Campo Santo di Pisa (tom. xvii.), after the original fresco by Buonamico Buffalmacco, whose name is so familiar to readers of the Decameron.

F. C. B.

Bayle relates this legend in his account of Lamech as follows:

"There is a common tradition that Lamech, who had been a great lover of hunting, continued the sport even when, by reason of his great age, he was almost blind. He took with him his son, Tubal-Cain, who not only served him as a guide, but also directed him where and when he ought to shoot at the beast. One day, as Cain was hid among the thickets, Lamech's guide seeing something move in that place, gave him notice of it; whereupon Lamech shot an arrow, and slew Cain. He was extremely concerned at it, and beat his guide so much as to leave him dead upon the place."

One of the frescos of the Campo Santo at Pisa gives the whole subject, from the offering of Abel's and Cain's sacrifice, to the death of the young man by the hand of Lamech, painted by Pietre da Orvieto about 1390. In one corner of the fresco, Cain is depicted as a wild and shaggy figure, crouched in a thicket, at which Lamech, at the suggestion of his guide, shoots an arrow. Below, the homicide is represented as murdering the cause of his error by blows on the head inflicted with his bow.

Cheverells.

The following note upon the name of Lamech may perhaps serve to throw a little light upon the difficult passage in Genesis iv. 23, 24.—Lamech, in Celtic Lamaich, or Laimaig, means a slinger of stones; and Lamech being dextrous in the use of that weapon the sling, wantonly slew two young men, and boasted of the bloody deed to his two wives, Adah and Zillah, blasphemously maintaining that as Cain for one murder should be avenged sevenfold, so he, for his wanton act, would be avenged seventy and seven fold upon whoever should slay him. It may be considered strange that the name of Lamech should be Celtic, and that it should signify a slinger; but I am strengthened in my opinion by reference to the Hebrew alphabet, in which the letter l is called lamed; but why it is so named the Hebrews cannot say. Now, if any one examines the Hebrew ל he will perceive that it is by no means a rude representation of a human arm, holding a sling with a stone in it. The word Lamech is derived from lam, the hand; and the termination signifies dexterity in shooting or discharging missiles therewith.

It is curious to notice that the remaining names in the passage of Scripture are Celtic: thus Cain is compounded of cend, first, and gein, offspring,—pronounced Kayean, i. e. first begotten. Adah means a fair complexioned, red-haired woman; and Zillah, peace, from siotlad, pronounced shieta.

Francis Crossley.

PHOTOGRAPHIC NOTES AND QUERIES

Photographic Notes.—G. H. P. has communicated (Vol. vii., p. 186.) a very excellent paper in reference to our numerous failures in the collodion process; but the remedies he proposes are not, as he is aware, infallible. He gives the recommendation you find in every work on the subject, viz. to lift the plate up and down in the bath to allow evaporation of ether. I have made experiments day after day to ascertain the value of this advice, and I am convinced, as far as my practice goes, that you gain nothing by it; indeed, I am sure that I much oftener get a more even film when the plate is left in the bath for about two minutes without lifting it out. I should be glad of other photographers' opinion on the point.

I have never found any benefit, but much the contrary, from re-dipping the plate in the bath; and I may observe the same of mixing a drop or two of silver solution with the developing fluid.

I think with G. H. P. that the developing solution should be weak for positives.

I omitted, in my description of a new head-rest, to say that it is better to have all the parts in metal; and that the hole, through which the arm runs, should be a square mortice instead of a round one, as is usual. A screw at the side sets it fast; the lower portion of the upright piece being round, and sliding up and down in a tube of metal, as it does in the best rests, allowing the sitter to be placed in different positions. All this is very difficult to describe, but a slight diagram would explain it easily, which I would willingly, as I have before said, send to any one thinking it worth writing to me for.

J. L. Sisson.

Edingthorpe Rectory.

On some Difficulties in Photographic Practice.—Being desirous to have a glass bath for the silver, I was glad to find you had given (in "Notices to Correspondents") directions for making one, viz. two parts best red sealing-wax to one part of Jeffries' marine glue. I tried this, but found the application of it to the glass impossible, as it set immediately. Now, can you afford room for the means by which this may be remedied; as my wish to substitute glass for gutta percha remains?

Now I am addressing you, may I offer one or two hints which may be of service to beginners? If, after what has been considered a sufficient washing of the glass, after the hypo., during the drying, crystals from hypo. remaining appear, and which would most certainly destroy the picture, I have found that by breathing well over these parts, and immediately repeating the washing, all ill effects are thoroughly prevented. To substitute hot water instead of breathing does not destroy the hyposulphite, and therefore will not do.

When the plate shall be dry after the washing process, if a leaden, dim, grey appearance occurs, I have found that by tenderly rubbing it with fine cotton, and applying with a good-sized camel's hair pencil a varnish of about 8-10ths spirits of turpentine and 2-10ths mastic varnish, and then, before this gets dry, putting on the black varnish, the grey effect will have been removed.

I have found the protonitrate of iron, as also the protosulphate, and not seldom the pyrogallic, so difficult of application, that I have stained and spoiled very good pictures. I have therefore used, and with perfect success, a tray of gutta percha a little longer than the glass (say one-fourth of an inch), and one-fourth of an inch deep; sliding from one end the glass into the tray (supplied immediately before using it), by which means the glass is all covered at once.

I think the Rev. Mr. Sisson's suggestion, viz. to send you some of our specimens with collodion, a very proper one, if not declined on your own part, and shall, for one, feel great pleasure in acting in accordance with it.

You will, I trust, pardon any foregoing hints for beginners, as I well know that I have lost several pictures by hypo-crystals, and very many by the difficulty in developing.