Trial of the Officers and Crew of the Privateer Savannah, on the Charge of Piracy, in the United States Circuit Court for the Southern District of New York

Q. You are familiar with these Roads?

A. Yes, sir; for years.

Q. You know the town of Hampton?

A. Yes.

Q. And the college there?

A. Yes.

Q. How, with reference to the college at Hampton, did the Harriet Lane lie?

A. The college at Hampton appeared N.N.W., and at a distance of a mile and a quarter, or a mile and a half.

Q. How were you taken from the Minnesota on board the Harriet Lane?

A. The ship's crew took us in a boat.

Q. In one trip, or more trips?

A. We all went in one of the ship's boats.

Q. On what day was that?

A. I do not bear in mind exactly.

Q. Was the Harriet Lane ready to sail when you were taken on board of her?

A. Yes; she sailed in a few hours afterwards.

Q. She had already had steam up?

A. Yes; they were waiting for the commander, who was on shore.

Q. How long were you lying on board the Minnesota after your arrival there?

A. I think we were transferred from the Minnesota on Saturday, the 20th of June.

Q. How long had you been lying on board the Minnesota, in Hampton Roads?

A. Two or three days; I do not recollect exactly.

Q. You have been a seafaring man a good many years?

A. I have been about 34 years at it.

Q. In the capacity of master and mate?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. As pilot, also?

A. I have run pilot on all the coasts of America.

Q. How often had you been in Hampton Roads?

A. Many a time. I sailed a vessel in and out in the West India trade.

Q. How familiar are you with the localities about there?

A. I am so familiar that I could go in, either night or day, or into Norfolk.

Q. Do you know the ranges, bearings, distances, depth of water, and all about it?

A. Yes; and could always find my way along there.

Q. (By a Juror.) I understood you to say that the Savannah carried both the American flag and the Confederate flag?

A. Yes.

Q. And that the American flag was flying when you were bearing on the Joseph?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the object of sailing under that flag?

A. I presume our object was to let her know that we were coming; and, no doubt, the vessel heaved to for us. Suddenly enough we raised the Confederate flag.

Q. Then it was deception?

A. Of course; that was our business—that was as near as I understood it.

William Habeson called, and sworn. Examined by District Attorney Smith.

Q. You are the Deputy Collector of the port of Philadelphia? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you charge of the register of vessels there?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you take this certified copy of the register of the Joseph from the original book?

A. It is copied from the original book.

Mr. Evarts: It is a temporary register, dated 26th January, 1861, showing the building of the vessel, and the fact of her owners being citizens of the United States.

Q. Who was the master of the vessel then?

A. George H. Cables.

Q. Do you know who was the master afterwards?

A. Yes; I saw him afterwards. That man (pointing to Captain Meyer) is the man. He was endorsed as master after the issuing of this register.

Q. And you recollect this person being master of the vessel mentioned in that register?

A. I do, sir.

George Thomas called, and sworn. Examined by District Attorney Smith.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Quincy, Massachusetts.

Q. What is your business?

A. Shipbuilder.

Q. Do you know the brig Joseph?

A. I have known her; I built her.

Q. Where did you build her?

A. At Rockland, Maine.

Q. Who did you build her for?

A. For Messrs. Crocket, Shaller, Ingraham, and Stephen N. Hatch—all of Rockland.

Q. Were they American citizens?

A. They were all American citizens.

Q. What was the tonnage of the vessel?

A. About 177 tons. She was a hermaphrodite brig.

Q. Look at this description in the register and say whether it was the vessel you built.

A. I have no doubt that this is the vessel.

George H. Cables called, and sworn. Examined by District Attorney Smith.

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Rockland, Maine.

Q. Look at the description of the brig Joseph, in this register, and see if you know her?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were formerly master of the vessel?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was the master that succeeded you?

A. I put Captain Meyer in charge of her.

Q. You recognize Mr. Meyer here?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you own any part of that vessel?

A. I bought a part of it, and gave it to my wife.

Q. Is your wife an American-born woman?

A. She is.

Q. Where does she reside?

A. In Rockland.

Q. Do you know any others of the part-owners of her?

A. Yes; my brother and myself bought a three-eighth interest.

Q. Where does your brother reside?

A. In Rockland.

Q. Is he an American-born citizen?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you an American citizen?

A. Yes.

Q. You spoke of some other owner?

A. Yes; Messrs. Hatch and Shaler.

Q. Are they American citizens?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you know all the owners?

A. Yes.

Q. Were they all American citizens?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you put Meyer in charge of the vessel?

A. On the 26th or 27th of April last.

Q. Where?

A. In Philadelphia.

Q. Where did you sail from?

A. From Cardenas, in Cuba, on a round charter which I made at Cardenas myself with J. L. Morales & Co., consigned to S. H. Walsh & Co.

Q. The ownership remained the same?

A. Just the same.

Q. Was there any change up to the time of her capture?

A. No, sir.

Thies N. Meyer, examined by District Attorney Smith.

Q. You were Captain of the brig Joseph at the time of her capture?

A. I was.

Q. What American port had you sailed from?

A. Philadelphia.

Q. Where did you go to?

A. Cardenas, in Cuba.

Q. What port did you sail for from Cardenas?

A. Back to Philadelphia.

Q. What cargo had you?

A. Sugar.

Q. By whom was it owned?

A. By J. M. Morales & Co., of Cardenas.

Q. When did you leave the port of Cardenas?

A. 28th May, 1861.

Q. And you were captured by the Savannah on the 3d June?

A. Yes.

Q. State the particulars of the capture by the Savannah of the brig Joseph from the time she first hove in sight?

A. Mr. Bridges, my mate, called me some time between 6 and 7 o'clock in the morning, and told me there was a suspicious looking vessel in sight, and he wished me to look at her. I went on deck and asked him how long he had seen her, he told me he had seen her ever since day-light. When I took the spy-glass and looked at her I found that she was a style of vessel that we do not generally see so far off as that. I hauled my vessel to E.N.E., and when I found that she was gaining on me I hauled her E. by N. and so until she ran E. About 8 o'clock she came near enough for me to see a rather nasty looking thing amid-ships, so that I mistrusted something; but when I saw the American flag hanging on her main rigging, on her port side, I felt a little easier—still, I rather mistrusted something, and kept on till I found I could not get away at all. When she got within half a gun shot of me I heaved my vessel to, hoping the other might be an American vessel.

Q. Had she any gun on board?

A. I saw a big gun amid-ships, on a pivot.

Q. How far on was she when you saw the gun?

A. About a mile and a half or two miles; I could see it with the spy-glass very plainly.

Q. Can you give us the size of the gun?

A. Not exactly; I believe it was an old eighteen pound cannonade.

Q. How was it mounted?

A. On a kind of sliding gutter, which goes on an iron pivot: it was on a round platform on deck, so that it could be hauled round and round.

Q. So that it could be pointed in any direction?

A. Yes, in any direction. After she came up alongside of me, Captain Baker asked me where I was from, and where bound, and ordered me with my boat and papers on board his vessel. I asked him by what authority he ordered me on board, and he said, by authority of the Confederate States. I lowered my boat and went on board with two of my men. When I got alongside, Captain Baker helped me over the bulwarks, or fence, and said he was sorry to take my vessel, but he had to retaliate, because the North had been making war upon them. I told him that that was all right, but that he ought to do it under his own flag. He then hoisted his own flag, and ordered a boat's crew to go on board the brig. Some of them afterwards returned, leaving six on board the brig.

Q. Did Captain Baker take your papers?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recognize Captain Baker in court?

A. Yes. As soon as they secured my crew they hauled the brig on the other tack, and stood into the westward, with the privateer in company. Captain Baker desired me to ask my mate to take the sun, as he had a chronometer on board, and the privateer had not. At 3 o'clock the privateer stood back to find out the longitude; while so doing she got astern of the brig, and about that time the brig Perry hove in sight, steering southward and eastward. When they saw the brig Perry they hauled the privateer more on the wind, because she would go a point or two nearer to the wind than the brig Joseph, so as to cut off the Perry if they could. They went aloft a good deal with opera glasses, to find out what she was, and they made her out to be a merchant vessel, as they thought. Then they saw the Perry's quarter boats, and rather mistrusted her. They backed ship and stood the same as the Perry. The Perry then set gallant stern-sail, and kept her more free, because she got the weather-gauge of the privateer.

Q. At the time of the capture of the Joseph by the Savannah did you observe all the crew, and in what attitude they were on deck?

A. I saw them working around the gun and hauling at it. Whether it was loaded or not, I could not say.

Q. Were any of the men armed?

A. None at that time that I know of; but after I went on board I saw them armed with a kind of cutlass, and old-fashioned boarding-pistols; and they had muskets with bayonets on.

Q. At the time you left your vessel for the Savannah, in what attitude were the men on board the Savannah?

A. They were all around on deck. Perhaps half of them were armed.

Q. How was the gun pointed?

A. The gun was pointing toward the brig.

Q. Who were about the gun?

A. Before I went on board I saw that a man was stationed beside the gun; I could not say which of them it was.

Q. What crew had you?

A. I had four men, a cook, and mate.

Q. Were they armed?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you armed?

A. I had one old musket that would go off at half-cock.

Q. Was there any gun on board your vessel?

A. None except that.

Q. How many men did you see on the deck of the Savannah? A. Some 16, or 18, or 20.

Q. Were you transferred to the Perry from the Savannah?

A. Yes.

Q. And from the Perry to the Minnesota?

A. Yes.

Q. And from the Minnesota to the Harriet Lane?

A. No; to the Savannah. I came to New York in the Savannah.

Q. Then the Savannah sailed to New York before the Harriet Lane did?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where were you born?

A. In the Duchy of Holstein, under the flag of Denmark.

Q. You have been naturalized?

A. Yes.

Q. In what Court?

A. In the Court of Common Pleas, New York.

Q. When did you come to this country?

A. In the winter of '47.

Q. Did you hail from here ever since?

A. I hailed from almost all over the States. I never had a home until lately. I have hailed from here about a year. Before that, wherever my chest was was my home.

Q. You have resided in the United States ever since you were naturalized?

A. Yes, sir; I have never been out of it except on voyages.

Q. You have continued to be a citizen of the United States since you were naturalized?

A. Yes.

Q. And to reside in the United States?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recollect the names of your crew?

A. No, sir; none except the mate; his name was Bridges.

Q. Is he here?

A. Yes.

Q. When the Joseph was seized by the Savannah, what was done with the Joseph?

A. She was taken a prize, a crew of six was put on board of her, and they started with her to westward.

Q. What became of the rest of the men of the Joseph besides yourself?

A. They were carried on with the Joseph; I continued on the Savannah.

Q. When did you first observe, on board the Savannah, that the American flag was flying?

A. When she was within about a mile and a half off.

Q. At what time, in reference to her distance from you, did she run up the Confederate flag?

A. The Confederate flag was not run up until after I had asked Captain Baker by what authority he ordered me to go on board; then the Confederate flag was run up; that was just before I went on board.

Cross-examined by Mr. Larocque.

Q. Be good enough to spell your name.

A. Thies N. Meyer.

Q. Was there any flag hoisted on board the Savannah at the time she was captured by the Perry, or immediately preceding that?

A. They were trying to hoist the Stars and Stripes up, but it got foul and they could not get it up, and they had to haul it down again.

Q. Then she had no flag flying at the time?

A. No, sir.

The District Attorney here put in evidence the certified copy of the record of naturalization of Thies N. Meyer, captain of the Joseph, dated 28th January, 1856.

Horace W. Bridges, examined by District Attorney Smith.

Q. You were mate of the Joseph when she was captured by the Savannah?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know the names of the others of the crew beside yourself and the captain?

A. I do not know all of them.

Q. State those you know?

A. The cook's name is Nash, and there was another man named Harry Quincy; that is all I know.

Q. Were they citizens of the United States?

A. I think they were both.

Q. Are you a citizen of the United States?

A. Yes; I was born in the State of Maine.

Q. You have heard the statement of Captain Meyer as to the seizure of the vessel?

A. Yes.

Q. You were on board the Joseph after she parted company with the Savannah and sailed for South Carolina?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Under whose direction did she sail?

A. By the direction of the prize-master.

Q. With a prize crew from the Savannah?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recollect the name of the prize-master?

A. Evans.

Q. How many men did the crew consist of?

A. Six, with the prize-master.

Q. What did they do with the vessel?

A. Took her into Georgetown.

Q. What was done with you and the others of the crew?

A. We were taken to jail at Georgetown.

Q. What was done with the vessel?

A. I believe she was sold, from what I saw in the papers and what I was told.

Q. Where were you taken from Georgetown?

A. To Charleston.

Q. What was done with you there?

A. We were put in jail again.

Q. How long were you kept in jail in Georgetown?

A. About 2 months and 20 days.

Q. How long were you kept in jail in Charleston?

A. Three days.

Cross-examined by Mr. Larocque.

Q. You said that, while you were held as a prisoner at Georgetown, you saw something in reference to the sale of the Joseph in the papers?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the purport of it?

A. She was advertised for sale.

Q. Under legal process?

A. I do not know about that. I was also told of it by one of the prize crew that took us in.

Q. You saw in the newspapers an advertisement of the sale?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that of a sale by order of a Court?

A. It was a sale by order of the Sheriff or Marshal.

Q. As a prize?

Objected to by District Attorney Smith, for two reasons:

First—That it was a mere newspaper account; and,

Secondly—That the newspaper was not produced.

After argument, the Court decided that there was no foundation laid for this hearsay evidence.

Q. Did the advertisement state by whose authority the sale was to take place?

A. I do not recollect anything about that.

Q. Do you recollect the name of a judge as connected with it?

A. No, sir. There was no judge connected with the sale.

Q. Do you recollect the name of Judge Magrath in connection with it?

A. No, sir; I recollect his name in connection with some prize cases, but not in connection with the sale of the Joseph.

Q. Since your arrival at New York, you have been examined partially by the District Attorney, and have made a statement to him?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you not state on that examination that while you were in confinement the vessel was confiscated by Judge Magrath, and sold at Georgetown?

A. No, sir; I do not think I did.

Q. You were released at Charleston, after a confinement of three days?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you get out?

A. The Marshal let us out.

Q. While you were in confinement at Georgetown or Charleston was your examination taken in any proceeding against the bark Joseph, or in relation to her?

A. Yes, sir. In Georgetown.

Q. By whom was that examination taken?

Mr. Evarts suggested that there was a certain method of proving a judicial inquiry.

Judge Nelson: They may prove the fact of the examination.

Q. Before whom were you examined?

A. Before a man who came from Charleston.

Q. Did he take your examination in writing?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you learn what his name was?

A. I think his name was Gilchrist.

Q. Were you sworn, as a witness?

A. Yes.

Q. What proceeding was that, as you were given to understand, and what was the object of the examination?

A. The object of it was to find out what vessel she was, what was her nationality, and who owned the cargo belonging to her.

Q. And you gave your testimony on these subjects.

A. Yes.

Q. Was it in written questions put to you?

A. I think so.

Q. And you signed your examination?

A. Yes.

Q. And what came of it afterwards?

A. I do not know.

Q. Was it taken away by Mr. Gilchrist?

A. I expect so.

Q. Was there any other of the crew besides yourself examined? A. Yes; all of them.

Q. On the same subject?

A. I expect so.

Q. Were you present during the examination of them all?

A. No; only at my own.

Q. What newspaper was it that you saw that advertisement in?

A. I think in the Charleston Courier.

Q. Do you recollect its date?

A. No, sir.

Q. What had become of the vessel when you went to Charleston?

A. She was lying in Georgetown.

Q. Do you know in whose possession, or under whose charge, she was?

A. I do not.

Q. Was she in Georgetown, in the hands of the Marshal, to your knowledge?

A. No, sir; not to my knowledge. I was in prison at the time.

Commodore Silas H. Stringham, examined by District Attorney Smith.

Q. You are in the United States Navy?

A. I am.

Q. The Minnesota was the flag ship of the Atlantic Blockading Squadron, off Charleston?

A. Yes, sir. I was the commanding officer.

Q. The Minnesota took the prisoners off the Perry?

A. Yes; on the 5th of June, in the afternoon.

Q. State precisely where the transfer from the Perry to the Minnesota was made?

A. I discovered, about mid-day, a vessel close in to Charleston. I stood off to make out what she was. A short time afterwards we discovered it was the Perry, and were surprised to find her there, as she had been ordered, some time previously, to Fernandina, Fla. She hailed us, and informed us she had captured a piratical vessel. The vessel was half a mile astern. Captain Parrott, of the Perry, came and made to me a report of what had taken place. I ordered him to send the prisoners on board, and sent a few men on board the Savannah to take charge of her during the night. The vessels were then anchored. The next morning I made arrangements to put a prize crew on board the Savannah, and send her to New York, and I directed the Captain of the Joseph to take passage in her. I took the prisoners from the Perry, and directed the Perry to proceed on her cruise, according to her previous orders. I then got the Minnesota under weigh, and took the privateer in tow, and brought her close in to Charleston harbor, within 3 miles, so as to let them see that their vessel was captured. Some slaves in a boat told me next day that they had seen and recognized the vessel.

Mr. Brady: The question you were called upon to answer is, as to the place where the prisoners were transferred from the Perry to the Minnesota.

A. The transfer was made about 10 miles from Charleston Harbor, out at sea. It was fully 10 miles off.

Q. State the design of transferring the prisoners to the Minnesota?

Objected to by Mr. Larocque.

ARGUMENT ON THE JURISDICTION

The District Attorney, Mr. Smith, stated that he would prove that every thing done from that time onward was done in pursuance of a design then conceived of sending the prisoners, to the port of New York.

Mr. Larocque contended that the naked question of jurisdiction, or want of jurisdiction, could not be affected by showing that the prisoners were taken on board a particular vessel, with or without a particular design. All that affected that question was, the place where the prisoners were first taken to after they were captured. The only question their honors could consider was, whether, after their apprehension, the prisoners were or were not brought within the District of Virginia, so as to give the Court of Virginia jurisdiction, before they were brought to New York. The fact that Commodore Stringham did, or did not, entertain in his own mind a design to bring the prisoners to New York, was of no relevancy whatever. Their objection was based on the broad ground, that the statute had fixed the only District that was to have jurisdiction of these criminals, namely, the District within which they are first brought. If they were first brought within the District of Virginia, the design which the Commodore might have entertained made no manner of difference, and the fact could not be got rid of by any evidence to show that the design was not to put themselves in that dilemma.