The Journal of Negro History, Volume 3, 1918

It was then moved and seconded so to alter the resolution that it should read

Resolved that the rights of suffrage in the national legislature ought not to be according

It was then moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the last resolution—And, on the question to postpone, it passed in the affirmative The following resolution was then moved by Mr Madison seconded by Mr. G Morris.

Resolved that the equality of suffrage established by the articles of confederation ought not to prevail in the national legislature and that an equitable ratio of representation ought to be substituted.

It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the last resolution.

(The following Resolution being the 2d. of those proposed by Mr. Randolph was taken up. viz—"that the rights of suffrage in the National Legislature ought to be proportioned to the quotas of contribution, or to the number of free inhabitants, as the one or the other rule may seem best in different cases.")

Mr. M(adison) observing that the words ("or to the number of) free inhabitants." might occasion debates which would divert the Committee from the general question whether the principle of representation should be changed, moved that they might be struck out.

Mr King observed that the quotas of contribution which would alone remain as the measure of representation, would not answer; because waving every other view of the matter, the revenue might hereafter be so collected by the general Govt. that the sums respectively drawn from the States would (not) appear; and would besides be continually varying.

Mr. Madison admitted the propriety of the observation, and that some better rule ought to be found.

Col. Hamilton moved to alter the resolution so as to read "that the rights of suffrage in the national Legislature ought to be proportioned to the number of free inhabitants. Mr. Spaight 2ded. the motion.

It was then moved that the Resolution be postponed, which was agreed to.

Mr. Randolph and Mr. Madison then moved the following resolution—"that the rights of suffrage in the national Legislature ought to be proportioned."

It was moved and 2ded to amend it by adding "and not according to the present system"—which was agreed to.

It was then moved and 2ded. to alter the resolution so as to read "that the rights of suffrage in the national Legislature ought not to be according to the present system."

It was then moved & 2ded. to postpone the Resolution moved by Mr. Randolph & Mr. Madison, which being agreed to;

Mr. Madison, moved, in order to get over the difficulties, the following resolution—"that the equality of suffrage established by the articles of Confederation ought not to prevail in the national Legislature, and that an equitable ratio of representation ought to be submitted" This was 2ded. by Mr. Govr. Morris, (and being generally relished, would have been agreed to when,)

Mr. Reed moved that the whole clause relating to the point of Representation be postponed; reminding the Come. that the deputies from Delaware were restrained by their commission from assenting to any change of the rule of suffrage, and in case a change should be fixed on, it might become their duty to retire from the Convention.

Mr. Govr. Morris observed that the valuable assistance of those members could not be lost without real concern, and that so early a proof of discord in the convention as a secession of a State, would add much to the regret; that the change proposed was however so fundamental an article in a national Govt. that it could not be dispensed with.

Mr. M(adison) observed that whatever reason might have existed for the equality of suffrage when the Union was a federal one among sovereign States, it must cease when a national Governt. should be put into the place. In the former case, the acts of Congs. depended so much for their efficacy on the cooperation of the States, that these had a weight both within & without Congress, nearly in proportion to their extent and importance. In the latter case, as the acts of the Genl. Govt. would take effect without the intervention of the State legislatures, a vote from a small State wd. have the same efficacy & importance as (a vote) from a large one, and there was the same reason for (different numbers) of representatives from different States, as from Counties of different extents within particular States. He suggested as an expedient for at once taking the sense of the members on this point and saving the Delaware deputies from embarrassment, that the question should be taken in Committee, and the clause on report to the House (be postponed without a question there). This however did not appear to satisfy Mr. Read.

By several it was observed that no just construction of the Act of Delaware, could require or justify a secession of her deputies, even if the resolution were to be carried thro' the House as well as the Committee. It was finally agreed however that the clause should be postponed: it being understood that in the event the proposed change of representation would certainly be agreed to, no objection or difficulty being started from any other quarter (than from Delaware).

The motion of Mr. Read to postpone being agreed to

The Committee then rose. The chairman reported progress, and the House having resolved to resume the subject in Committee tomorrow,524

(Adjourned to 10 OClock)

The next question was on the following resolve:

In substance that the mode of the present representation was unjust—the suffrage ought to be in proportion to number or property.

To this Delaware objected, in consequence of the restrictions in their credentials, and moved to have the consideration thereof postponed, to which the house agreed.525

McHenry records for the thirtieth of May that the Committee then proceeded to consider the second resolution in Mr. Randolph's paper.

That the rights of suffrage in the national legislature ought to be proportioned to the quotas of contribution or to the number of free inhabitants as the one or the other rule may seem best in different cases.

As this gave the large States the most absolute controul over the lesser ones it met with opposition which produced an adjournment without any determination.526

After frequent discussion and the failure to reach an agreement to safeguard the interests of the small States while giving due weight to the population of the large the effort to apportion representation in the national legislature assumed this form in the Committee of the Whole:

It was moved by Mr. King, seconded by Mr Rutledge to agree to the following resolution, namely:

Resolved that the right of suffrage in the first branch of the national Legislature ought not to be according to the rule established in the articles of confederation; but according to some equitable ratio of representation

And on the question to agree to the same

it passed in the affirmative (Ayes—7; noes—3; divided—1.)

It was then moved by Mr. Rutledge seconded by Mr Butler to add the following words to the last resolution

"namely, according to the quotas of contribution"

It was moved by Mr Wilson seconded by Mr C. Pinckney to postpone the consideration of the last motion in order to introduce the following words, after the words "equitable ratio of representation" namely.

"in proportion to the whole number of white and other 'free Citizens' and inhabitants of every age, sex and condition, 'including those bound to servitude for a term of years', and three fifths of all other persons not comprehended in the foregoing description, except Indians, not paying taxes 'in each State.'"

On the question to postpone

it passed in the affirmative. (Ayes—10; noes—1.)

On the question to agree to Mr Wilson's motion

It passed in the affirmative (Ayes—9; noes—2.)

It was then moved by Mr Wilson seconded by Mr Hamilton to adopt the following resolution, namely,

"resolved that the right of suffrage in the second branch "of the national Legislature ought to be according to the rule "established for the first"

On the question to agree to the same it passed in the affirmative (Ayes—6; noes—5.)527

In the Committee of the Whole on the eleventh of June:

It was then moved by Mr. Rutlidge 2ded. by Mr. Butler to add to the words "equitable ratio of representation" at the end of the motion just agreed to, the words "according to the quotas of Contribution. On motion of

Mr. Wilson seconded by Mr. C. Pinckney, this was postponed; in order to add, after, after the words "equitable ratio of representation" the words following "in proportion to the whole number of white & other free Citizens & inhabitants of every age sex & condition including those bound to servitude for a term of years and three fifths of all other persons not comprehended in the foregoing description, except Indians not paying taxes, in each State." this being the rule in the Act of Congress agreed to by eleven States, for apportioning quotas of revenue on the States, and requiring a census only every 5—7, or 10 years.

Mr. Gerry thought property not the rule of representation. Why then shd, the blacks, who were property in the South be in the rule of representation more than the cattle & horses of the North.

On the question.

Mass: Con: N. Y. Pen: Maryd. Virga. N. C. S. C. and Geo: were in the affirmative: N. J. & Del: in the negative. (Ayes—9; noes—2.) Mr. Sherman moved that a question be taken whether each State shall have (one) vote in the 2d. branch. Every thing he said depended on this. The smaller States would never agree to the plan on any other principle (than an equality of suffrage in this branch. Mr. Ellsworth seconded the motion.) On the question for allowing each State (one) vote in the 2d. branch.

Massts, no. Cont, ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. Pa. no. Del. ay Md. ay. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no. (Ayes—5; noes—6.)

(Mr. Wilson & Mr. Hamilton moved that the right of suffrage in the 2d. branch ought to be according to the same rule as in the 1st. branch.)

On this question for making the ratio of representation the same in the 2d. as in the 1st. branch (it passed in the affirmative:) Massts. ay. Cont. no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. Pa. ay. Del. no. Md. no. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. (Ayes—6; noes—5.)528

On the same day

Mr. Wilson was of opinion, and therefore moved, that the mode of representation of each of the states ought to be from the number of its free inhabitants, and of every other description three fifths to one free inhabitant. He supposed that the impost will not be the only revenue—the post office he supposes would be another substantial source of revenue. He observed further, that this mode had already received the approbation of eleven states in their acquiescence to the quota made by congress. He admitted that this resolve would require further restrictions, for where numbers determined the representation a census at different periods of 5, 7 or 10 years, ought to be taken.

Mr. Gerry. The idea of property ought not to be the rule of representation. Blacks are property, and are used to the southward as horses and cattle to the northward; and why should their representation be increased to the southward on account of the number of slaves, than horses or oxen to the north?

Mr. Madison was of opinion at present, to fix the standard of representation, and let the detail be the business of a sub-committee.

Mr. Rutledge's motion was postponed.529

Discussing whether the apportionment should be according to taxation or numbers, Wilson considered

Either Rule good—by Numbers best to ascertain the Right of Representn. this agreeably to the Sentiments of 11 States—Impost alone will not be sufficient to answer the national Exigencies—Revenues arising from Postage—The present Quota not a lasting Rule—People to be numbered at fixed Periods—A Rule arising from Property and Numbers—

Gerry. Rule of Taxation not the Rule of Representation—4 might then have more Voices than ten—Slaves not to be put upon the Footing of freemen—Freemen of Massts. not to be put upon a Footing with the Slaves of other States—Horses and Cattle ought to have the Right of Representn. Negroes—Whites—530

On the thirteenth of June Randolph submitted another resolution agreed to in the Committee of the Whole.

Resolved that the right of suffrage in the first branch of the national Legislature ought not to be according to the rule established in the articles of confederation; but according to some equitable ratio of representation—namely in proportion to the whole number of whites and other free citizens and inhabitants, of every age, sex and condition, including those bound to servitude for a term of years and three fifths of all other persons not comprehended in the foregoing description, except Indians, not paying taxes in each State.531

The following propositions from New Jersey moved by Patterson closely connected the apportionment of requisitions with that of representation:

3. Resd. that whenever requisitions shall be necessary, instead of the rule for making requisitions mentioned in the articles of Confederation, the United States in Congs. be authorized to make such requisitions in proportion to the whole number of white & other free citizens & inhabitants of every age sex and condition including those bound to servitude for a term of years & three fifths of all other persons not comprehended in the foregoing description, except Indians not paying taxes; that if such requisitions be not compiled with, in the time specified therein, to direct the collection thereof in the non complying States & for that purpose to devise and pass acts directing & authorizing the same; provided that none of the powers hereby vested in the U. States in Congs. shall be exercised without the consent of at least532

Again on the fifteenth of June it was suggested that

3. The rule of apportioning Requis: on the States shall be the Whites 3/5 of all others—if the Req. is in arrear in any State, Congress shall have authority to devise & pass acts remedial in such case.

On the fifth of July the committee considering the question of representation reported on the 40,000 basis which repeatedly came before the Convention. It provided:

That in the first branch of the legislature, each of the states now in the union, be allowed one member for every 40,000 inhabitants, of the description reported in the seventh resolution of the committee of the whole house—That each state, not containing that number, shall be allowed one member.533

Reporting on this question the fifth of July, the Committee of the Whole decided to submit:

That the subsequent propositions be recommended to the Convention, on condition that both shall be generally adopted.

1st That in the first branch of the Legislature each of the States now in the Union be allowed one Member for every forty thousand inhabitants of the description reported in the seventh resolution of the Committee of the whole House. That each State not containing that number shall be allowed one Member—That all Bills for raising or appropriating money and for fixing the salaries of the Officers of the Government of the United States, shall originate in the first Branch of the Legislature, and shall not be altered or amended by the second Branch and that no money shall be drawn from the public Treasury but in pursuance of appropriations to be originated by the first Branch. 2ndly That in the second Branch of the Legislature each State shall have an equal Veto.

Discussing this question on the sixth of July:

Mr. Pinkney saw no good reason for committing. The value of land had been found on full investigation to be an impracticable rule. The contributions of revenue including imports & exports, must be too changeable in their amount; too difficult to be adjusted; and too injurious to the non-commercial States. The number of inhabitants appeared to him the only just & practicable rule. He thought the blacks ought to stand on an equality with whites: But wd.—agree to the ratio settled by Congs. He contended that Congs. had no right under the articles of Confederation to authorize the admission of new States; no such cases having been provided for.534

On the ninth of July, according to Madison, Mr. Gorham said:

Some provision of this sort was necessary in the outset. The number of blacks & whites with some regard to supposed wealth was the general guide. Fractions could not be observed. The Legislre. is to make alterations from time to time as justice & propriety may require. Two objections prevailed agst. the rate of 1 member for every 40,000 inhts. The 1st. was that the Representation would soon be too numerous: the 2d. that the Western States who may have a different interest, might if admitted on that principal by degrees, out-vote the Atlantic. Both these objections are removed. The number will be small in the first instance and maybe continued so, and the Atlantic States having ye Govt. in their own hands, may take care of their own interest by dealing out the right of Representation in safe proportions to the Western States. These were the views of the Committee.535

On the tenth of July the following interesting comment was made.

Mr. Dayton observed that the line between the Northn. & Southern interest had been improperly drawn: that Pa. was the dividing State, there being six on each side of her.

Genl. Pinkney urged the reduction, dwelt on the superior wealth of the Southern States, and insisted on its having its due weight in the Government.

Mr. Govr. Morris regretted the turn of the debate. The States he found had many Representatives on the floor. Few he fears were to be deemed the Representatives of America. He thought the Southern States have by the report more than their share of representation. Property ought to have its weight; but not all the weight. If the (Southn. States are to) supply money. The Northn. States are to spill their blood. Besides, the probable Revenue to be expected from the S. States has been greatly overrated. He was agst. reducing N. Hampshire.536

In connection with determining the basis of representation the following was offered on the eleventh of July:

"Resolved That in order to ascertain the alterations that may happen in the population and wealth of the several States a census shall be taken of the free inhabitants of each State, and three fifths of the inhabitants of other description on the first year after this form of Government shall have been adopted—and afterwards on every term of ____ years; and the Legislature shall alter or augment the representation accordingly"

It was moved and seconded to strike out the words

"three fifths of"

which passed in the negative. (Ayes—3; noes—7.)

It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the resolution proposed in order to take up the following namely.

Resolved That at the end of ____ years from the meeting of the Legislature of the United-States and at the expiration of every ____ years thereafter the Legislature of the United States be required to apportion the representation of the several States according to the principles of their wealth and population.

On the question to postpone, it passed in the negative (Ayes—5; noes—5;)

It was moved and seconded to agree to the first clause of the resolution namely.

"That in order to ascertain the alterations that may happen in the population and wealth of the several States a "Census shall be taken of each State"

which passed in the affirmative (Ayes—6; noes—4.)

(To adjourn. Ayes—1; noes—9.)

It was moved and seconded to agree to the following clause of the resolution, namely

"and three fifths of the inhabitants of other description"

which passed in the negative. (Ayes—4; noes—6.)

It was moved and seconded to agree to the following clause of the resolution, namely

"On the first year after this form of government shall "have been adopted"

which passed in the affirmative (Ayes—7; noes—3.)

It was moved and seconded to fill up the blank with the word "fifteen" which passed unanimously in the affirmative (Ayes—10; noes—0.)

It was moved and seconded to add after the words fifteen years the words "at least"

which passed in the negative (Ayes—5; noes—5.)

It was moved and seconded to agree to the following clause of the resolution namely

"and the Legislature shall alter or augment the representation accordingly"

which passed unanimously in the affirmative (Ayes—10; noes—0.) On the question to agree to the resolution as amended it passed unanimously in the negative. (Ayes—0; noes—10.) and then the House adjourned till tomorrow at 11 o'clock A.M.537

Taking up the question, Mr. Williamson urged again on the eleventh of July the counting of five Negroes as three white persons.

Mr. Williamson was for making it the duty of the Legislature to do what was right & not leaving it at liberty to do or not do it. He moved that Mr. Randolph's proposition be postponed, in order to consider the following "that in order to ascertain the alterations that may happen in the population & wealth of the several States, a census shall be taken of the free white inhabitants and 3/5ths of those of other descriptions on the 1st year (after this Government shall have been adopted) and every year thereafter; and that the Representation be regulated accordingly.538

Mr. Butler & Genl. Pinkney insisted that blacks be included in the rule of Representation, equally with the whites: (and for that purpose moved that the words "three fifths" be struck out.)539

Mr. Gerry though that 3/5 of them was to say the least the full proportion that could be admitted.

Mr. Ghorum. This ratio was fixed by Congs. as a rule of taxation. Then it was urged by the Delegates representing the States having slaves that the blacks were still more inferior to freemen. At present when the ratio of representation is to be established, we are assured that they are equal to freemen. The arguments on ye. former occasion had convinced him that 3/5 was pretty near the just proportion and he should vote according to the same opinion now.

Mr. Butler insisted that the labour of a slave in S. Carola. was as productive & valuable as that of a freeman in Massts., that as wealth was the great means of defence and utility to the Nation they are equally valuable to it with freemen; and that consequently an equal representation ought to be allowed for them in a Government which was instituted principally for the protection of property, and was itself to be supported by property.

Mr. Mason could not agree to the motion, notwithstanding it was favorable to Virga. because he thought it unjust. It was certain that the slaves were valuable, as they raised the value of land, increased the exports & imports, and of course the revenue, would supply the means of feeding and supporting an army, and might in cases of emergency become themselves soldiers. As in these important respects they were useful to the community at large, they ought not to be excluded from the estimate of Representation. He could not, however, regard them as equal to freemen and could not vote for them as such. He added as worthy of remark, that the Southern States have this peculiar species of property over & above the other species of property common to all the States.

Mr. Williamson reminded Mr. Ghorum that if the Southn. States contended for the inferiority of blacks to whites when taxation was in view, the Eastern States on the same occasion contended for their equality. He did (not) however either then or now, concur in either extreme, but approved of the ratio of 3/5.

On Mr. Butlers motion for considering blacks as equal to Whites in the apportionment for Representation

Massts. no. Cont. no. (N. Y. not on floor.) N. J. no. Pa. no. Del. ay. Md. No. (Va. no) N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. (Ayes—3; noes—7.)

Mr. Govr. Morris said he had several objections to the proposition of Mr. Williamson. 1. It fettered the Legislature too much. 2. It would exclude some States altogether who would not have a sufficient number to entitle them to a single Representative. 3. It will not consist with the Resolution passed on Saturday last authorizing the Legislature to adjust the Representation from time to time on the principles of population & wealth or with the principles of equity. If slaves were to be considered as inhabitants, not as wealth, then the sd Resolution would not be pursued: If as wealth, then why is no other wealth but slaves included? These objections may perhaps be removed by amendments. His great objection was that the number of inhabitants was not a proper standard of wealth. The amazing difference between the comparative numbers & wealth of different Countries, renderd all reasoning superfluous on the subject. Numbers might with greater propriety be deemed a measure of strength, than of wealth, yet the late defence made by G. Britain agst. her numerous enemies proved in the clearest manner, that it is entirely fallacious even in this respect.