Abridgement of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856 (4 of 16 vol.)

Your petitioners are confident, that, when your honorable body becomes thoroughly acquainted with the circumstances of art and deception which betrayed them into the expedition, the destination of which they had no knowledge until it was too late to retreat, you will not only punish such of their betrayers as are within reach of your power, but will adopt proper measures to restore your unfortunate petitioners to liberty and their families. We beg leave to mention that Jeremiah Powell, who was an officer of high confidence in the expedition, was pardoned without hesitation by the Spanish monarch, on the application of his father. Your petitioners have embraced many opportunities to convey to your honorable body the prayer of a petition, but, from the length of time elapsed since they sent off their last, and not hearing of any measures being adopted in their favor, they fear none ever arrived; and by the present opportunity several copies of this petition have been transmitted to gentlemen residing in different parts of the United States, with the hope that some of them may arrive safe.

Your petitioners cannot for a moment believe that the United States will suffer officers under her constitution to kidnap her citizens into expeditions and services fitted out and maintained by a foreign outlaw against powers with which she is at amity and peace, under the specious pretence of engaging them into the service of their country, without punishing the aggressors, and using every effort to regain her citizens. Such is the case of your unfortunate petitioners, who entreat you as children would a parent, to relieve them from total destruction, on the brink of which they have been thrown by the practise of frauds and villanies hitherto unheard of.

A short time since, a British ship of war arrived at this place, the commander of which, (Edward Kittoe, Esq.,) upon being applied to by nine of our companions, who declared themselves to be British-born subjects, and being made acquainted with the circumstances which led to our capture, immediately sent on a petition to the Viceroy of this Kingdom in behalf of us all, but particularly for such as are British subjects, whom we expect will eventually be liberated. Nothing but humanity and a strong desire to relieve distress could have induced Captain Kittoe to this step, who, we are confident, as much as ourselves, regrets its failure of success, and to whom we feel every way indebted, and shall ever recollect it with gratitude and thanks.

When your petitioners remonstrate against any harsh treatment of these people, they invariably ask, "Why don't your country liberate you? – it rests solely with them."

Your petitioners feel confident, from the justness of their claim to the interference and protection of the constituted authorities of their country, measures will be adopted to restore them to liberty; and having no doubt but your honorable body will afford them that protection which citizens have a right to claim from their country, your petitioners beg that your honorable body will convey them an answer, and your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c.

Robert Saunders, Benjamin Davis, Henry Sperry, Joseph Hickle, Ellery King, William Long, Daniel Newbury, Wm. Cartwright, Samuel Tozier, James Hyatt, Abram Head, Robert Stevenson, Samuel Price, Robert Reins, Hugh Smith, Benjamin Nicholson, Geo. Ferguson, Wm. Pride, Pompey Grant, David Heckle, Bennett B. Negus, John Moore, John M. Elliot, Henry Ingersoll, John Parcels, John Hayes, David Winton, Matthew Buchanan, Alexander Buchanan, Jas. W. Grant, John Edsall, Thomas Gill, Joseph Bennett, Phineas Raymond, Peter Nautly, Stephen Burtis.

Carthagena, August 12, 1808

On my arrival at this place, I was applied to in behalf of the unfortunate men captured under the orders of General Miranda, who are under sentence of transportation to the different public works at Omoa, Porto Rico, &c., among whom are several British subjects, (whose names are inserted below.) I am well aware of the enormity of their crime, as I understand they were taken without colors or papers; but, as a British officer, I consider it a duty to plead for those in distress, wherever they may be found; and I trust, from the known lenity of your Excellency's character, I shall not plead in vain. The men in question are originally of British descent, and are allied to my nation by many ties. They have no Consul – no Minister – to prefer the prayer of their petition to your Excellency, having been prevented by the war between our nations from making known their situation to the President of the United States. Suffer me, therefore to address your Excellency, and beg for their release, on a solemn promise that they will never be found again in arms on a similar occasion. As I am the hearer of welcome tidings to the inhabitants of the province under your Excellency's command, make me also the hearer of them to the unhappy sufferers now confined in Carthagena. It is true, I am unauthorized to make this request in the name of the British Government for the men in general, but I am convinced the step will be approved; and if your Excellency will lend a favorable ear to my petition the circumstance will not pass unnoticed on their part; at all events, your Excellency will have the prayer of many individuals for your eternal happiness, and among them will be found (not the least fervent) those of your Excellency's most humble servant,

EDWARD KITTOE,Com. H. B. M. ship Sabina.

P. S. – If my request for the liberation of all General Miranda's men is by your Excellency deemed unreasonable or improper, I beg to confine it particularly to such as are British subjects: that is an indispensable duty I owe to them and my country.

Names of British subjects under sentence of transportation at Carthagena

John Moore, Peter Nautly, John Hayes, Thomas Gill, Joseph Bennett, James Grant, Samuel Tozier, Robert Stevenson, and Hugh Smith, (a boy.)

Territorial Governments

ORDINANCE OF 1787

Mr. Poindexter, from the committee appointed on the subject, reported a bill concerning the power of the Territorial Governments. [The object of it is to take away from Governors of the Territories the power of proroguing or dissolving their Legislatures.]

The bill was twice read; and

Mr. Poindexter observed, that as the bill must stand or fall on its principle, and could not want amendment, he should wish to dispense with the usual course of reference to a Committee of the Whole, and that it should be engrossed for a third reading.

Mr. Troup hoped the House would not be precipitated unadvisedly into a decision of a question of this kind; that they would not break in upon a system which had served them so well without maturely deliberating upon it. The ordinance for the government of the Territories he considered as constitutional law, and it should be viewed and treated with as much delicacy as the constitution of the General Government itself. It had served them well, it had nurtured the Territories from infancy to maturity, and he hoped the house would not innovate on the system, but for the most substantial reasons. He therefore wished this bill to take the course of all other business, and go to a Committee of the Whole.

Mr. Poindexter said it was not his object to exclude deliberation by his motion; as the day for its third reading might be fixed a fortnight hence, if the gentleman from Georgia wished it. He knew the difficulty of getting up such bills when committed to a Committee of the Whole; he also knew that in a few days the House would be engaged in great national concerns, which would occupy their entire attention to the exclusion of other business of minor importance. The gentlemen seem to think (said Mr. P.) that to leave to the Governors of Territories of the United States powers which are fitted but for the Sovereigns of Europe, is highly decorous; whilst I think they should be spurned from the statute book. The gentleman is mistaken when he says that we should view the ordinances in the same light as the constitution; they are mere statutes. Placed by the constitution under the particular care of Congress as the Territories are, the ordinances enacted for their government are mere statutes, subject to the revision of Congress, as other laws are.

Mr. Pitkin said the ordinances for the government of the Territories had been framed with great deliberation, and should always be considered as a compact between the General Government and its Territories. Whether an alteration could or could not be made without their consent, he would not undertake to say. He thought therefore in this case the usual rule should not be violated, for it was well known that no amendment could be received on the third reading of a bill.

Mr. Troup said the gentleman from the Mississippi Territory had totally mistaken his object. It was not procrastination that he wanted, but a mature consideration of the question, whether on this day or on this day fortnight. When he had considered the ordinance as a compact equally sacred with the constitution of the United States, and as unalterable without the consent of the parties to it, it was then that he considered this a question of such great and signal importance that he wished time for deliberation. And when he said this, he expressed the opinion of a man than whom no man in the country was more deeply read in its constitution – St. George Tucker – who had described it as a compact unalterable, but with the consent of both parties. The gentleman would take away from the Territorial Governors the power to prorogue and dissolve the Assemblies. What would then be the state of the Territorial Legislatures? They would (said Mr. T.) be as completely independent of the General Government as the General Government is, I hope, of Great Britain at this moment. Retain the qualified veto, and take away the power to prorogue and dissolve, and what will be the consequence? The moment a misunderstanding takes place between the Legislature and Executive, legislation is at an end; and where legislation ends, revolution begins, and there is an end of government.

Mr. Poindexter said, at the suggestion of several gentlemen, he should consent to a reference of the bill to a committee, as he did not wish now to hasten the discussion. But the gentleman was mistaken if he supposed that taking away the power to prorogue, would deprive the Governors of their veto on laws. The Governors had an unqualified veto on the acts of the Legislature. The gentleman said, (observed Mr. P.,) that take away the power of prorogation, and if a misunderstanding arise between the Governor and the Legislature, there is an end of legislation. That is now the fact. If there be any misunderstanding between them, the Governor sends the Legislature home; and I agree with the gentleman from Georgia, "where legislation ends, revolution begins." In this situation, I wish to take some power from the Governor and place it in the people, which would render the Government more congenial to the spirit of the constitution and of the people of the United States. But I waive discussion and consent to reference.

The bill was made the order of the day for to-morrow.

Thursday, November 17

Another member, to wit, Dennis Smelt, from Georgia, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Foreign Relations

Mr. Macon said, already had many resolutions been submitted to the consideration of the House on the subject of our foreign relations, and the embargo; some for a total and some for a partial repeal of it. As none of the motions had met his entire approbation, and as he considered this as one of the most important questions that could come before the House, he wished to submit to the House two or three propositions; which he wished to take a course different from that which had been given to the others on the same subject.

I have been astonished (said Mr. M.) to see so many resolutions on the subject of the embargo, and none contemplating its entire continuance. Is the American nation ready to bow the neck? Are we ready to submit to be taxed by Great Britain and France, as if we were their colonies? Where is that spirit which for this reason separated us from the nations of Europe? Where is that spirit which enforced a simple resolution of the old Congress, not then binding upon the people, as a law from Heaven? Is it extinct? Is it lost to this nation? Has the love of gain superseded every other motive in the breasts of Americans? Shall the majority govern, or shall a few wicked and abandoned men drive this nation from the ground it has taken? Is it come to this, that a law constitutionally enacted, even after a formal decision in favor of its constitutionality, cannot be enforced? Shall the nation give way to an opposition of a few, and those the most profligate part of the community? I think the stand we took last year was a proper one; and I am for taking every measure for enabling the nation to maintain it. Just as our measure is beginning to operate, just as provisions are becoming scarce in the West Indies and elsewhere, notwithstanding the evasions of our law, we are called upon to repeal it. I should not have made this motion at this time, had it not been for the petition just presented. When I stand here, sir, charged by a part of the community with being one of "the enemies of the people," notwithstanding I am willing to commit the petition, treating it with that respect which I conceive to be due from us to the prayer of any portion of the people, I wish my sentiments on this subject to be seen.

A proclamation has been issued by one of the belligerents since the passage of our embargo law, sir. Look at it. What says it? Clearance or no clearance, we will receive any neutral vessel into our ports; and, in speaking of neutrals, recollect that there is no nation in the civilized world that has a claim to the title, except ourselves. This proclamation then tells our citizens, "Evade the laws of your country, and we will receive and protect you." This is the plain English of it.

If the mad powers of Europe had entered into compact to injure us as much as they could, they could not have taken a more direct course to it. I consider them both alike, and the measures I would take would place them both on the same footing. I have made my resolutions as general as possible, to give all latitude to the committee.

Mr. M. then read his resolutions as follows:

"Resolved, That the committee appointed on that part of the President's Message which relates to our foreign relations, be instructed to inquire into the expediency of excluding by law from the ports, harbors, and waters of the United States, all armed ships and vessels belonging to any of the belligerent powers having in force orders or decrees violating the lawful commerce of the United States as a nation.

"Resolved, That the same committee be instructed to inquire into the expediency of prohibiting by law the admission into the ports, harbors, and waters of the United States, any ship or vessel belonging to or coming from any place in the possession of any of the above-mentioned powers, and also the importation of any goods, wares, and merchandise, the growth, produce and manufacture of the dominions of any of the said powers.

"Resolved, That the same committee be instructed to inquire into the expediency of amending the act laying an embargo, and the several acts supplementary and additional thereto."

On the subject of the first of these resolutions (said Mr. M.) it might be proper to interdict the entrance of all armed vessels, although I have confined the interdiction to the belligerents. A certain time might be fixed on which the second should go into operation.

I have thought proper, sir, to bring forward all these resolutions together to show my own opinion on what ought to be done. It is time for those who think the embargo a lawful and proper measure, to come forward and declare it. No other person having as yet thought proper to do it, I have now done it. I believe the embargo was right; that it was right to pass laws to enforce it; and believing this, I feel no hesitation in avowing it. Time has been when the impressment of our seamen was cried out against by a large majority of Congress. Now the cry is, that we will not let them go out and be taken. For if they go out they must be taken. Neither of the two great powers of Europe have shown the least disposition to relax their measures; neither I hope shall we. I believe we have but three alternatives —war, embargo, or submission. The last I discard; this nation never would submit; nor are there many people in it that would. That is out of the question; then, the only question is, whether in the present state of the world, the embargo or war is the best for us? Arm your merchantmen, as has been proposed, send them out, and you have war directly? If we are to have war, I should rather have it openly, and let the nation know that we mean it. I am for the embargo yet. I am told flour is from thirty to fifty dollars a barrel in the West Indies; I am also told that wheat is fourteen shillings sterling a bushel in England. This must have an effect, if adhered to, through Spain and Portugal. France, if she carries her armies into that country, cannot support them. Nor can Spain support her own armies, and at the same time those Great Britain sends there; for where war is waged, almost all agriculture is destroyed; and it only requires firmness in us to force them both by this measure to acknowledge our rights. If I am mistaken in my opinion, I wish that measure to be adopted which may best maintain our rights and independence.

It is not the embargo which causes the pressure on the people. No, sir, it is the orders and decrees of England and France. Take a license from England, and you may trade, but on no other terms. Let an officer of the British fleet visit your vessel, and France will condemn it. These are the things which destroy commerce. The country in which I live feels the measure as much as any; there are agriculturists, and their crops remain unsold; and if they will do without the principal, and resist imposition by withholding their produce, those who make a profit by the freight of our produce, may afford to lose that profit. Can any man tell what would be the consequence of war, in these times? In common war some regard is had to the laws of nations by belligerents, and they fight each other. In the present war the belligerents disregard the laws of nations, and fight every one but one another.

Mr. Quincy said he wished the last resolution to be separated from the first, as the House would be committed by its adoption. Not that he wished to avoid a discussion of that subject, for he wished for nothing so much as that the House would permit them to go into a discussion of the subject in Committee of the Whole. [Mr. Macon consented that the last resolution should lie on the table.] Mr. Q. said he wished to press a discussion on the subject of the embargo; for such was the state of public opinion in the Northern part of the Union, that but one general sentiment prevailed, that the embargo would be immediately raised. Instead of postponing the subject from day to day, he only wished it to come before the House that gentlemen might understand one other, and put an end to the doubts that now existed.

The first and second resolutions offered by Mr. Macon were agreed to without a division. The third was ordered to lie on the table – yeas 78.

Friday, November 18

Territorial Governments. – Ordinance of 1787

On motion of Mr. Poindexter, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill concerning Territorial Governments.

The bill having been read —

Mr. Bibb said, that if the House were now called upon for the first time to pass an ordinance for the government of the Territories of the United States, he should attach very little importance to the decision of the present question. But he considered it not now an abstract question of expediency, but as one of great moment, from the circumstances with which it was connected. He denied the right of the House to pass the bill; and if they had not the right, it was surely unnecessary to argue the question on the ground of policy. It would be recollected that the Mississippi Territory was formerly the property of the State of Georgia, and ceded by that State to the United States on certain conditions, one of which was that the ordinance for the government of the Territory Northwest of the Ohio should be the basis of the government of the Mississippi Territory.2 If this, said he, be one of the conditions of a compact between the United States and Georgia, surely the United States have no right to infringe it without the consent of Georgia; and I, as one of her Representatives, formally protest against the passage of this bill. It may be said that Georgia is very little interested in the abstract question, whether the Governor should or should not have the power of prorogation; but, if a right exists to alter one part of the ordinance without the consent of Georgia, it certainly implies a power to alter it in every part.

Mr. Poindexter said he would state the reasons for which he had introduced the bill, and which would, he hoped, insure it the sanction of the committee. I will, in the first place, said Mr. P., advert to that part of the ordinance which is proposed to be amended by the bill under consideration. In the ordinance for the government of the Northwestern Territory will be found this article: "The Governor shall have power to prorogue and dissolve the General Assembly, when, in his opinion, it shall be expedient." The bill proposes to take away this power, as being arbitrary and oppressive in the extreme, and incompatible with the Constitution of the United States. This ordinance was passed previous to the adoption of the Federal Constitution, and if it had been the subject of consideration subsequent to its adoption, this provision had never been inserted, giving to Governors of Territories a power paramount to any power possessed by the President of the United States. Take away this power and a Governor will still have left the power of negativing all acts, so that none can pass without his assent; and, being the agent of the General Government, he would give consent to no law incompatible with the interests of the United States.

It has been said that the ordinance cannot be altered without the common consent of the parties to it, and that the State of Georgia must be called upon to give its assent before the Congress can alter it. There are two parts of this ordinance; the first contains the form of government, and the second several articles of compact which are declared unalterable but with common consent. After reciting the form of government, the ordinance says:

"The following articles shall be considered as articles of compact between the original States and the people of the States in the said Territory, and forever remain unalterable, unless by common consent, to wit."

[Here follow six articles.] The ordinance declares that which follows the declaration to be unalterable, but by common consent; it follows of consequence that that which precedes the declaration is alterable. Independent of this reasoning, which cannot be refuted, at every session since we have been a Territory, there have been laws passed altering the ordinance in some shape or other. For example, the ordinance requires two judges to hold a court; and, in a variety of instances, Congress has legislated with respect to the form of government of the Territory. I had supposed that the articles of agreement between the United States and Georgia had become obsolete, with respect to the imagined necessity of the consent of Georgia to legislation on the subject of the Territory. It was urged at the last session with all the eloquence which the gentlemen from Georgia are in so great a degree possessed, and disregarded; for it was decided by both Houses that the United States had a right to rule the Territory without the consent of Georgia.

The Constitution of the United States says that Congress shall "have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States." Can an agreement arising from the exercise of this power, supersede the right of exercising the power expressly delegated by the constitution itself? Certainly not.