Abridgement of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856 (4 of 16 vol.)

Friday, March 16

Mrs. Hamilton's Claim

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill for the relief of Elizabeth Hamilton.

Messrs. Smilie, Root, W. Alston, Bacon, Macon, Clay, and Boyd, opposed the bill, and Messrs. Johnson, Sheffey, and Nelson, supported it.

The committee rose about four o'clock, and reported the bill.

Mr. Macon moved to amend the said bill by striking out the following words: "five years' full pay for the services of her said deceased husband as a Lieutenant Colonel in the Revolutionary war, which five years' full pay is the commutation of his half-pay for life;" for the purpose of inserting, "whatever may be due to her for his services as an officer during the Revolutionary war."

Mr. Gholson called for a division of the question.

And the motion to strike out was negatived, yeas 57, nays 54.

Mr. W. Alston moved to amend the bill by adding the following proviso:

"Provided, That it shall be made to appear, to the satisfaction of the accounting officers of the Treasury Department, that the said Alexander Hamilton ever was entitled to half pay or commutation."

The question on Mr. Alston's amendment was decided in the negative – yeas 55, nays 56.

And on motion, the House then adjourned, about five o'clock.

Saturday, March 17

Amey Dardin's Claim

The bill for the relief of Amey Dardin was read a third time.

Mr. Stanford moved to recommit the bill to obtain a more particular report on the claim than had been made. Motion negatived.

The passage of the bill was opposed by Messrs. Macon, Bacon, Pickman, and Stanford, and advocated by Messrs. Gholson, Smilie, W. Alston, and Sheffey.

[It was opposed on three grounds – the main objection being that it opened the statute of limitations; 2, that the claim ought not to be allowed, because the horse, for which compensation was asked, might have been reclaimed if the deceased Mr. Dardin had chosen to have received it; 3, that interest ought not to be allowed on the sum at which the horse was valued.]

The bill was passed – yeas 82, nays 24.

Mrs. Hamilton's Claim

The consideration of the bill for the relief of Mrs. Hamilton was called for.

Mr. Wynn moved to adjourn. For it, 23.

Mr. Root moved to postpone the further consideration of it till Friday next. Negatived, 57 to 43.

Mr. Root opposed the bill at length, and Mr. Fisk replied.

The question "Shall the bill be engrossed for a third reading?" was then taken and carried, by yeas and nays.

On the question, when the bill should be read a third time, Mr. Root named Friday, and Mr. Nelson to-day.

For Friday 44 – For Monday 50.

To-day was fixed as the day; and a motion was made by Mr. T. Moore to adjourn. Lost, 63 to 50.

The bill was read a third time and passed, 63 to 53, the votes being precisely the same as those last taken, except that Mr. R. Brown was absent on this vote.

Monday, March 26

Torpedo Experiment

The bill making an appropriation for the purpose of making an experiment on the practical use of the torpedo, or submarine explosion, was taken up.

Mr. Dana, said that the question now before the House did not relate to any degree of reputation which any individual might claim for any invention, nor to any interest he might have in any discovery he had made. The question was, whether this proposition now appeared before the House under such circumstances that they should step out of the ordinary course of encouragement, given by law to inventors, to provide the means of making an experiment at the public expense. This, Mr. D. said, was the simple inquiry to be made; and, however eminent or distinguished in the walks of science, or however irradiated by the splendor of genius, it belonged to no individual to demand of the Legislature that they should adopt any system previous to its utility being ascertained. No individual could arrogate it to himself; and, when any individual pressed himself upon the Legislature, it was a question whether this experiment was worthy to be made; whether the invention promised any possible good worthy of this experiment.

Mr. D. said he had no wish to detain the House, but he had really doubted, for himself, whether, with the views he entertained on this subject, it was compatible with the respect due to the House to withhold some of the sentiments which occurred to him in opposition to this bill. In every instance in which a sum of money had heretofore been appropriated to encourage inventions, it had been for some object admitted to be of value, for something intended to be of use, and which, prior to making the appropriation in relation to it, had been, in a degree, examined. This, however, was a thing which, on the face of it, appropriated a sum of money for the purpose of making experiments to ascertain the use of the invention. It was therefore, perhaps, the first appropriation of the kind ever proposed.

Mr. D. said he did not perceive that any experiment could be made, in time of peace, to ascertain this thing, so as to decide the question of the practical use of the torpedo; for, with respect to every question stated in the publication laid on the table, with respect to any principle which the inventor proposed to establish by any specific experiment, with respect to any question which related to natural agents or their physical effect, he thought it proper to admit the whole.

In the first place, Mr. D. said that he admitted that the explosive force of gunpowder, placed at the keel, might destroy any ship. Another thing he would admit, that a person might deposit powder in a metallic case, which should remain under water; that the case might be made water-tight, and that the clock-work contained in it might be put in motion. He would admit, also, that this machine might be balanced so that its gravity should be nearly equal to that of the water; that the action of the current or tide might bear such a magazine, so specifically apportioned, beneath the bottom of the vessel.

But, when all these things were admitted, Mr. Dana said that he did not perceive that any one point was gained as respected the object of the experiment, for it must be considered that all this experiment could only go to decide the action of natural physical powers, where the efforts of genius were not combined.

As respects the whole of the thing itself, as far as I understand it, I perceive nothing new in it. I do not conceive that, on this subject, there is any thing very novel in point of principle. There may be something in the modification of it; but, as respects the main principle, there is nothing new. The idea was started during the war of the American Revolution, and various experiments were made on it. The Commander-in-Chief of the Army of the United States, at that time, was not, as I have understood, impressed himself with much confidence in the experiment. But a gentleman of his family, and an officer of his army, who had more confidence in it, made the experiment; and, ultimately, the experiment was pretty much given up.

As he did not speak at random, Mr. D. asked leave to call the attention of the House to the principles of the invention of David Bushnell, of Connecticut. [Mr. D. here read, from the Philosophical Transactions, an account of a machine invented by Mr. Bushnell, in many respects similar to that invented by Mr. Fulton.]

The principal difference between these two inventions, Mr. D. said, appeared to be in the mode of conveying the machine to the keel of the ship. The plan of Mr. Fulton was, instead of conveying it by means of a diving-boat, to convey it by the action of the current to the place where it was to operate. To do this he proposed two modes. As respected the first, the action of the current on the torpedo placed obliquely, Mr. D. said he had no doubt. It was the principle on which the helmsman steers his ship, and the seaman manages his sails; the principle on which boats are made to pass ferries by the oblique action of the current. As respected the second mode, the use of the harpoon-gun, there was no novelty in that certainly. It had been used in Europe in the whale fishery, where they were not trained in this species of fishing so as to produce dexterity in throwing the harpoon. Premiums had been given, and attempts made to discharge a harpoon from a ring and rope attached to it, at the distance of ten fathoms, which was a greater distance than the most experienced and skilful could strike with effect.

The question which Mr. D. said he proposed, was, whether obstacles could not be interposed by naval men. As respected firing the harpoon-gun, he should suppose it a want of skill or attention in the experiment if it failed to take effect. That a harpoon might be fired into a vessel, that the torpedo would go under her, and that a vessel which could be bought for $5,000, might be blown up in this way, he had no doubt; but when all this is done, what does it ascertain? As respects making a torpedo, any person who is in the neighborhood of a good gun and locksmith, and has good powder, can construct one. Mr. D. said he did not see the necessity of spending this sum of money rather for amusement than for any thing else. He did not see the necessity of it, because he did not perceive any one thing to be learnt from an experiment. He was, therefore, against the bill.

Mr. Lyon said that the gentleman from Connecticut had shown his own conviction of the utility of torpedoes, and it would be worth while to give five thousand dollars to establish the same conviction in others. If I had the twentieth part of the certainty on the subject which that gentleman has, said Mr. L., I should not vote for the experiment. I have no desire, in voting for any thing of this kind, to give up any other kind of defence. I know it is all-important in us to defend our ports and harbors. If it was not for our extensive seacoast, I should not be so extremely averse to going to war. I would leave no means untried to protect this seacoast. However little the hope might be, if there was the least thing to hang hope on, I would give $5,000 for the experiment. I have voted for the highest sum ever called for, for the defence of New York; but still, when I look to the steeples of the fine churches, and to the banks, &c., of that city, exposed as it is and must be, I am struck with horror. Notwithstanding all the exertions which have ever been made for them, they must still be insecure. If $5,000 would carry conviction as far on the rest of the House as with the gentleman from Connecticut, the money would be well laid out to enable us to go on with a further experiment of this plan.

The gentleman from Connecticut read a long history of the torpedo experiment made many years ago. I believe, sir, Mr. Fulton has but little merit in originating the thing. Let gentlemen recollect what an alarm this thing made, and how uneasy the British were during the Revolutionary war, till they thought they had got rid of these machines. I cannot forget the alarm which they excited, and will take the liberty to quote Hopkinson on the subject, who was a witness to the transaction:

"'T was early day, as poets say,Just when the sun was rising,A soldier stood on log of wood,And saw a sight surprising."As in amaze he stood to gaze,The truth can't be denied, sir,He spied a score of kegs, or more,Come floating down the tide, sir."A sailor, too, in jerkin blue,The strange appearance viewing,First damn'd his eyes, in great surprise,Then said – 'some mischief's brewing.'"These kegs now hold the rebels bold,Pack'd up like pickled herring,And they 're come down, t' attack the townIn this new way of ferry'ng."The soldier flew – the sailor too,And, scar'd almost to death, sir,Wore out their shoes to spread the news,And ran till out of breath, sir."Now up and down, throughout the town,Most frantic scenes were acted;And some ran here, and some ran there,Like men almost distracted."Some fire cried, which some denied,But said the earth had quaked;And girls and boys, with hideous noise.Ran through the town half naked." &c. &c.

If a parcel of kegs, in those days, alarmed them so much, what will Fulton's torpedoes do now?

Mr. McKim said, that what had fallen from the gentleman from Connecticut had operated powerfully on his mind to satisfy him of the propriety of the appropriation. He says, observed Mr. McK., that he has no doubt they will produce the desired effect. Now, sir, when I am informed, from so respectable a source, of their effect when properly placed under the ship, I am induced to vote for this appropriation. If one of these machines in a hundred should take effect, the object would be perfectly gained. If we could only blow up one or two in a squadron, we should not hereafter be disturbed by British squadrons in our waters. I have listened with great pleasure to the lecture of the gentleman on pneumatics, hydraulics, &c., for I know not where I could have derived so much information as from that gentleman, and I take the opportunity of returning my thanks to him.

Mr. Fisk said he was against the bill, but from different reasons than other gentlemen were. I do believe, said he, that in some cases, the anchored torpedoes may be effectual; but I do not believe that any thing to result from this bill will be of service to the country. I do not entertain any doubt that a vessel may be blown up. The explosion will take place, the wreck will be left in the bed of the river, and it may cost $5,000 to raise it, or it may remain as an obstacle to the invasion of the capital. If Congress are at this time seriously to resort to the torpedo system of defence, let us do it in a more serious manner; let us make a respectable provision to purchase torpedo munition, and create a torpedo corps under certain regulations. We have got military and naval armaments; let us make a torpedo armament. At the same time, it was but justice to the inventor to say, that he considered the anchored torpedo as a very useful invention. Mr. F. moved to recommit the bill, to inquire into the propriety of appropriating such a sum of money as the Secretary of the Navy should deem adequate to the object, for the sum proposed certainly was not.

Mr. Quincy said he agreed with the gentleman from New York in his opposition to the bill, because, if a fair experiment was intended, the appropriation was totally insufficient. This morning, in a conversation with the Secretary of the Navy, I understood that this sum will not enable a vessel to be placed in that situation which will give a fair experiment. If we pass this bill, it will be utterly useless to the purpose proposed. If the object be to have gentlemen who never saw such a thing gratified with an explosion, that object will be attained, but no other. Let us have an estimate from the Secretary of the Navy of the probable expense, or the whole sum appropriated may be lost, and the law will prove utterly disgraceful to those who passed it.

Mr. Holland said he had understood from the torpedo inventor himself, that $5,000 would be amply sufficient.

Mr. Dana said he had no belief that any vessel could be purchased for five thousand dollars, on which a sufficient experiment could be made. He conceived that the experiment could only be made in hostile operations. We are told that these torpedoes would destroy the navy in the British channel. Do we doubt the inveteracy of the French hatred of the British navy when it has existed so many years? If this invention would command the British Channel – and millions are but dust in the balance for this object – to enable Bonaparte to strike at the British soil, why has not the invention been patronized by France? It has been rejected by France, and rejected by England after an expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars – and now are we to take it up? It is as a stationary resistance to be made to a naval force where there are fortresses also, that the torpedo may be made use of, if they can be used at all; where chains, or chevaux-de-frises are made use of, it may be made use of as auxiliary to other aids in terrifying the enemy. As to setting these machines afloat, firing harpoons into vessels, calculating the chance of boats getting away when a single shot may send them to the bottom, I have no opinion of it at all.

Mr. Lyon said he would not vote for recommitment, not that he had not rather that ten thousand dollars were appropriated than five thousand; but the House had the Senate's opinion on that point before them. He agreed with gentlemen entirely, that there never could be a complete experiment until time of war. But that was no reason why we should not, before war came, be in a fair state to try the experiment in war.

Mr. Fisk said he had not seen the experiment which had been made in New York, but he had conversed with hundreds who had. He had no doubt but the invention might be useful, but how was its utility to be ascertained, unless in the vessel to be attacked, there was a crew prepared to resist the approach of the boats, or prevent the operation of the torpedo? The nation would be no more convinced of their utility after an expenditure of five thousand dollars than they now are. It is because I have confidence in the effect of anchored torpedoes, that I am for recommitting the bill. By passing the bill as it is, we shall demonstrate nothing but the expenditure of money. I am for making an actual experiment on an enemy's vessel. To attack a well-manned frigate, is a very different thing from attacking an old hulk, perfectly at the disposal of the projectors. If we were to pass a bill constructing a torpedo corps, and offering a bounty on every ship blown up, it would be much better calculated to make an impression of our seriousness than this bill.

Mr. Tallmadge said, that having been absent from the House at the time this bill was first introduced, he knew not what arguments had been offered in favor of it. He said he was always ready to encourage inventions, &c., but when a measure was presented which had no novelty in it, he could not be satisfied to give a silent vote on the bill for encouraging it.

My honorable colleague stated fairly the principles on which the submarine boat was constructed; and I believe, said Mr. T., that there is no gentleman in this House who doubts the power of gunpowder, placed under the bottom of a vessel, to destroy it. I have seen it tried during the war in a great variety of ways. I became perfectly satisfied that the principle was just; the only difficulty was to place the magazine in such a situation that it should have the greatest possible effect.

I well recollect that, in 1777, when Bushnell was called on to make an experiment on a British brig of thirty-two guns, lying in North river, a detachment of troops was directed to proceed down the river to enable him to make the experiment free from interruption. I had the honor to command the detachment, and continued there one month. The object of the troops under my immediate command was to keep off all hostile persons, whether of the enemy or persons unfriendly to the invention, that he might have every opportunity to make his experiment with success. His object was at ebb tide to get into the river a boat constructed for the purpose, and pass down the river, and, if possible, fix his magazine of powder to the bottom of the enemy's vessel. He tried it over and over again. Sometimes he would entirely miss the vessel; sometimes he would come so near that he would get intimidated and retire again; till, sir, I became so heartily sick of the business, and of that sort of duty, that I wished the boat and men were both at the bottom of the ocean. I state this to show the difficulty, danger, and what I myself conceive to be the impossibility of placing the magazine under the vessel. So much for this; and I take Mr. Fulton's machine to be bottomed precisely on the same principle, the difference only being in the mode of application.

I have no idea of laughing the subject out of the House; but how can gentlemen see the least probability of success in the invention? Suppose a frigate at anchor, and a few boats endeavoring to harpoon this vessel. Do gentlemen suppose that boats can approach without the most imminent danger? And, granting that the harpoon strikes, where is all the nautical skill of the men when they see this, if they do not prevent it from taking effect. Suppose a perfectly sure shot, and that the harpoon should be fastened in the bow, is it possible that the rope to which the torpedo is attached would not be cut, and the torpedo left to float below perfectly harmless? Do gentlemen consider harpooning a vessel to be like harpooning a whale, which has no men on board of it to take out the harpoon? I cannot bring myself to believe it possible that a crew on board a ship could see all around her, and yet permit a torpedo to be attached to her and place her in such a condition as to be liable to be totally destroyed with every person on board.

It does seem to me that this sort of philosophical experiment ought not to be gone into by this House. If it be necessary to employ anything it would be vastly preferable that we should not go through all this solemn farce of passing a law for the purpose of exhibiting a sort of playful experiment, and there is probably a day of our time to be devoted to it, when, in truth, no solid advantages can accrue from it. I am unwilling on another ground, because the thing itself would expose the Government to a sort of ridicule. If we pass this bill, and the experiment be made; if a brig be bought for this money and totally destroyed, there will still be as much proof wanting to demonstrate that this is an experiment on which we can rely, as there was before. I am against it on another ground: that if we trust to this kind of doubtful defence, we shall get into the habit of giving up the more substantial defence of the country. This is my solid reason for voting against this bill. No one ever yet found any way of getting along in solid defence but by solid preparation. I should rather come into honorable combat than fight with this underhand explosion, when especially there is so much doubt in it. If an experiment could be made, however, without all this solemn farce, I do not, know that I should have any objection to it.

The motion for recommitment was lost – 50 to 45.

The question on the passage of the bill was then taken by yeas and nays, and decided in the affirmative – yeas 65, nays 53.

Wednesday, March 28

First Meridian

Mr. Pitkin, from the committee to whom was referred, on the 25th of January last, the memorial of William Lambert, made the following report thereon:

That the memorialist states that, for the purpose of laying a foundation for the establishment of a first meridian for the United States of America, at the seat of Government, he has made calculations to determine the longitude of the Capitol, in the City of Washington, from Greenwich Observatory, in England; and that he submits the same, together with the data and elements on which his calculations are made, to the consideration and patronage of the National Legislature.

The committee have deemed the subject worthy the attention of Congress, and would, therefore, beg leave to observe, that the necessity of the establishment of a first meridian, or meridian which should pass through some particular place on the globe, from which geographers and navigators could compute or reckon longitude, is too obvious to need elucidation.

The ancient Greek geographers placed their first meridian to pass through one of the islands, which were by them called the Fortunate Islands, since called the Canaries. Those islands were situated as far west as any lands that had then been discovered, or were known by ancient navigators in that part of the world.

They reckoned their longitude east, from Heria or Junonia, one of these islands supposed to be the present Island of Teneriffe.

The Arabians, it is said, fixed their first meridian at the most westerly part of the continent of Africa. In the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, when Europe was emerging from the dark ages, and a spirit of enterprise and discovery had arisen in the South of Europe, and various plans were formed, and attempts made to find a new route to the East Indies, geographers and navigators continued to calculate longitude from Ferro, one of the same islands, though some of them extended their first meridian as far west as the Azores or Western islands.